The Datsun Z series at Le Mans (Daily sportscar.com 17 nov 2013) | The Z Club of Great Britain
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The Datsun Z series at Le Mans (Daily sportscar.com 17 nov 2013)

Discussion in 'General discussion' started by SeanDezart, Oct 2, 2018.

  1. SeanDezart

    SeanDezart
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  2. tmr

    tmr
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    Interesting that there are no comments so far
     
  3. SeanDezart

    SeanDezart
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    Surprised ? Really ?
     
  4. Albrecht

    Albrecht Well-Known Forum User

    Why not have a shot at it yourself?
     
  5. tmr

    tmr
    Z Club Member

    I know where my weaknesses are and therefore would not presume to have the depth knowledge on the 2 entries to justify commenting on the article I do though get disappointed at the perpetual Mercedes comment
    I have always been fascinated by the history of the cars however I always find the background information particularly fascinating which is always difficult to collect and verify as I have found when investigating my own cars the information is out there but not easy to obtain.
     
  6. SeanDezart

    SeanDezart
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    'cos it's always effing moi !:banghead:

    Just replied to another French mag here repeating Mr Gilles claims (again and concerning the same car referred to in the above article from Poitiers that you know well) of it being the Le Mans car. I copied and translated for you the original article.
     
  7. Albrecht

    Albrecht Well-Known Forum User

    1975 & 1976 Le Mans 24hrs race S30-series Z 'need to know' list:

    *The Z which took part in the Le Mans 24hrs races in 1975 and 1976 was the same car both years.
    *The car was a right hand drive HS30-prefixed 'Fairlady 240Z' model, made in early 1973.
    *The car was originally a Nissan works circuit race car, which had raced in South Africa in 1973.
    *The car was never a Nissan works rally car.
    *The Japanese temporary-export 'carnet' license plate was affixed to the car as part of an identity swap (for bureacratic reasons...).
    *The bodyshell of the car was destroyed in the accident which killed owner/driver Andre Haller in the '76 race.

    It's a much bigger topic than that of course (how long have you got...?), but them's the main facts.
     
    Paul_S likes this.
  8. tmr

    tmr
    Z Club Member

    My limited knowledge led me to believe the car was a PS30-B, is there any history of the car's build before being exported. It's the quirky information that is interesting, how long have I got ? with age comes freedom and selfishness to spend more time doing what you want to do.
     
  9. Albrecht

    Albrecht Well-Known Forum User

    Many of Nissan's 'works' circuit race and rally Z cars from the 1969 to 1972 period were built on what were - in effect - lightweight 'PS30-SB' (Nissan Fairlady Z432-R) type bodyshells. For the 1972 season onwards, Nissan started building competition cars using 'full fat' standard production HS30 and HLS30 type bodyshells in order to comply with new FIA and JAF regulations.

    The '75 and '76 Le Mans 24hrs car was built on a much modified standard production HS30 type bodyshell. The two cars that the works team took to South Africa were well documented internally at Nissan, but Nissan do not want that data in the public domain.
     
  10. SeanDezart

    SeanDezart
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    I could be bored with facts like that all and everyday !:D

    So...THE car wasn't built before early '73 and only raced in Japan in that year (must have been very, very briefly) before being transported to SA ?

    I share Steves' curiosity of it's professional life before exportation - please.:)
     
  11. SeanDezart

    SeanDezart
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    May we add that the car that ran at Le Mans in '75/'76 under the guise of a GrpIV was, in fact, that which ran in SA as a GrpV ?
     
  12. Albrecht

    Albrecht Well-Known Forum User

    When I wrote "built", I mean built up as a works circuit race car at Oppama. Not the date the bodyshell was built on the production line at Hiratsuka. There's a difference, obviously.
     
  13. Albrecht

    Albrecht Well-Known Forum User

    Do you have conclusive proof of that, or is it just speculation?
     
  14. Albrecht

    Albrecht Well-Known Forum User

    Who said it actually raced in Japan before going off to race in South Africa? The cars were thoroughly tested of course, and - interestingly - some of that 'testing' was done during actual races, primarily aimed at gathering data for realistic race conditions, if that's not too cryptic. But this is a story of two halves; Nissan hadn't built it to take part at Le Mans and hadn't wanted it to take part at Le Mans. Once Haller got hold of the car via Schuller, with the car moving from South Africa to France (under somewhat murky circumstances of ownership) the second part of the story starts. It is both triumph and tragedy.

    The real meat of the Le Mans story lies - in my opinion - in how these people pretty much lucked into taking part in the '75 event, were classified as finishers punching away above their weight due to the bad luck of others (smoothing their entry to the '76 event), what was changed on the car for the '76 event, how and why it crashed (here was an ex-works car in the hands of what was in reality and amateur team running out-of-date lifed parts...), and all the other background colour. Poor Haller was a Restaurateur, not a pro racer.
     
  15. SeanDezart

    SeanDezart
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    Be careful because for most people 'built' means when it was built, not converted from and anyway, you said 'made' so if 'made' up to race spec in early 1973, might it have been a late '72 car ie built on the production line ?
     
  16. SeanDezart

    SeanDezart
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    Restauranteur (if we're being accurate). Not to be confused with a restaurer....of classic cars for ex. But the word 'restauration' is not only the supplying of food but the restoration of cars etc....took me ages to work that one out !

    For me, the sandwich consists of the car before SA, why Nissan believed that it was important to race in an aparthied-funded ,winter-entertainment with well-paid famous-name racing drivers to attract the punters in a country rather than send them to the 'Old World' to push sales here !
    The, we have the build-up to the 1975 LM race, the following hill-climbs and THEN the skullduggery to get it entered into the 1976 LM race !
    I don't see why they would even want to repeat the effort except for the lark, the kudos of 'being there', photographed etc but I wonder if Schuller was even involved apart from the 'rumour' that they eventually qualified with a special engine rushed down from his place and fitted overnight on what would have been the Wednesday in order to 'qualify' the Thursday !

    Speculation ? Yeah, call it that but GrpV was what ? Fibre-glass panels, big 2870 engine and the GrpV (no15) had a ventilation air-trap on the front scuttle panel that the GrpIV (no16) didn't. One can clearly see that trap on the Le Mans car.
     
  17. Albrecht

    Albrecht Well-Known Forum User

    https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/restaurateur
     
  18. SeanDezart

    SeanDezart
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    The English word restaurateur , borrowed from French, still exists in modern French in the same form and with the same meaning. The variant spelling restauranteur , influenced by the more familiar English word restaurant, is gaining some currency, but has traditionally been considered erroneous.

    Oops, Franglais strikes ! Roll on Brexit to avoid the confusion.
     
  19. Albrecht

    Albrecht Well-Known Forum User

    Why the Springbok Series? They had a good local distributor to smooth their way, a good market to promote the Nissan and Datsun names in, and a nice chance to race against some decent opposition as a feeler for bigger things to come elsewhere. Same as they did with their sports racing cars in Australia. Research. They did well too, didn't they?

    You're in danger of falling into an elephant trap there. That little duct was a field update to cool electronics. No reason it could not have been added to the Gr.IV car later. You will remember that the Gr.5 car had rear disc brakes in South Africa whilst the Gr.IV car had drums. And the Le Mans car had....? See? Deja Vu: The Japanese side of the story states that the Gr.V car (which was much more 'trick') went back to Japan whilst the Gr.IV car stayed on in South Africa for the local drivers to use in the remaining rounds of the 1973 Springbok Series. They took part in two races in the series before the remaining races were cancelled due to the oil crisis. A car with nowhere to race...

    We've been through all this before anyway. Not much point going through it all again here unless some new information comes from the French (or German...) side. When the ACO can't confirm the identity that the car actually ran under in the LM24, we have to file the case under 'No New News' at this point.

    And when there are people out there who ridiculously want to claim that they have THE actual car, risen Phoenix like, I am reluctant to show all my cards.
     
  20. SeanDezart

    SeanDezart
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    I've not seen the rear brakes of the LM car.

    But do we agree that the GRPIV car had steel panels ?
     

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