From Smoker to Sssssmokin’!

[AliK]

On ECU equipped cars without idle control valves, ignition timing is usually used to maintain a target idle as temperature increases.

The key to getting you timing right throughout the rev range is to achieve a 50% burn by 20deg ATDC (I think). Depending on the speed of your flame front you have to place the spark at a certain point of the rotation to achieve this. As the engine revs go part 3700 you will need to continue advancing the timing in order maintain the 50% burn by 20deg ATDC. The likelihood of an engine pinking will reduce as the revs rise so you can usually get away with more advance in the higher range.

Johny, this is great food for thought, thank you. I've often wondered why the curve stops advancing at 3k ish. With all I've read, I'm pretty sure the engine needs more advance further up (albeit subtle) but I assume it's to do with what they could achieve with springs and weights in those days and playing safe.

BTW - I thought this was a great read.

http://www.enginebuildermag.com/201...g-making-maximum-power-means-knowing-science/

can't blame me, I would have made you get the Kameari one with fixed timing and a massive starter motor!

Well you did suggest the 123 after all [emoji14]

123Ignition dizzy. No mechanical parts, app controlled via Bluetooth, with the extra features Ali mentioned. Made in the Netherlands. Been thinking about one for the FairladyZ. Even had the app on my phone to play with!

Did it come with the correct Z mounting bracket and drive cog to engage with the fuel pump drive?

The app is very cool indeed - much fun to be had. I like the real-time tuning which will come in handy when I'm next on the rollers at the tuning place to optimise, see the difference a little extra or little less here and there would make.

This is what it came with which I need to figure out, hence not on the car yet. But it looks fairly straight forward. The instructions are a little generic so I may do a write up on it and send the to 123 to adapt / include with the Datsun package.

@woody - you have far bigger fish to fry my friend and don't need the added expense of this if your car is running as it should!

 

[jonbills]

Very interesting read. Peato40 has also got one [emoji108].
I think I'd read you're after complete burn at 24 atdc, which sounds reasonably consistent with what John said. I'd also wondered why you'd stop advancing after around 3500, so that all makes more sense now.
It'll be fun to play with when I get my Speeduino thing working.

John, What sort of advance curve have you got? How high are you taking it?

 

[richiep]

That looks like the correct bracket Ali. (And when I said fuel pump I meant oil pump- doh!) I think the bracket was originally developed by the US distributor to adapt the generic 6-cyl 123 unit.

Was this straight from 123?

 

[AliK]

I knew what you meant


Yes you are right it was the US guys that developed the bracket.

I bought direct from 123 but my advice is: don't buy a spare cap and rotor from them (as I did)!! They are generic items that are half the price else where.

 

[johnymd]

I run 38 at the top end.

 

[jonbills]

I run 38 at the top end.

Ta John.

 

[AliK]

I run 38 at the top end.

Thanks John! Interestingly that's the same conclusion I reached after reading articles that said as a rule of thumb you go 1 to 1.5 degrees per 1000rpm past 3500. Assuming absolute max rpm of 7000 and reaching full all in (34degrees) on current dizzy at 3000 and playing safe with only 1 degree /1000 revs = 34 + 4

I have a Z pass for tomorrow morning so will report back on how it went - either much better or bang! [emoji1]

 

[uk66fastback]

Did you detail anywhere your installation of the 123ignition dizzy Ali? This thread seems to have not been updated ...

 

[AliK]

Yes quite, I am very overdue for an update or indeed progress.

My z progress is akin to glaciers, moves VERY slowly at times causing catastrophic financial damage in the process as I accumulate parts, then the melt comes and there is a flood of progress.

So watch this space especially as I am soon to receive a new header / exhaust from uncle Sean.

I am still wrestling with the 123 so I haven't written it up yet. Found last weekend that the Beru cap and rotor that come with it had been the cause of much grief - replaced with Bosch and a lot of ignition irregularities disappeared. I am quite pleased and in places disappointed by this product so I want to write a fair review.

Are you getting one or have you bought one?

 

[uk66fastback]

Not bought one yet - I was waiting to see how you had fared with it - I know others have it - Peato has one I think, and seem to swear by them. You seem to be not doing quite as well as others have with it!
I'll still get one I think soon, just trying to glean as much info as possible.

I'll look forward to reading the update when you can get the time!

 

[AliK]

OK chap, I will start it on my commute - it's going to be a case of wow and warts!

 

[AliK]

Some days are very exciting when I come home!!! A delivery from La France!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sadly it's agonising as I won't get the time to play for some time and can't open the package as I have nowhere to store it after opening :'( *sniff*

Can't wait!!! May have to give into temptation and open it then find a space under the children's bed to hide it!!!

 

[uk66fastback]

One of the Frenchie's 'zorsts I take it. Header and full system?

 

[AliK]

One of the Frenchie's 'zorsts I take it. Header and full system?

Oh yeah!!!!!!!!!! Already have the back box so it was time for the rest

 

[Huw]

Go on open it, you know you want to do it!

 

[Woody928]

Exciting! I keep checking the front door in anticipation....

 

[AliK]

Exciting! I keep checking the front door in anticipation....

He's a busy boy but they are with him now so hang in there!

 

[uk66fastback]

If only he'd get round to developing the 2-in-1 pipe for the OEM manifold ... we don't all want headers Sean!
I have some strange manifold > 2 pipes > right to the rear silencer with glass packs on each ... Hangs BELOW the diff from memory ...

 

[Woody928]

He's a busy boy but they are with him now so hang in there!

Missed the delivery today, hopefully tomorrow and then the weekend to have a good look....

 

[AliK]

So, just got home and given the choice to sit there plugging away at the Client Strategy Target Operating Model I'm writing or opening Pandora's box, there was little way to resist the temptation.

Not withstanding the opportunity to tease Mr Woody for missing his delivery.

The veg was a nice touch! Thanks Sean! But no garlic mon amiee!?

The photos really do it no justice, this is a beautifully made SOLID bit of kit and I'm sure it's gonna slow my Z down with it's weight.

It's utterly beautiful in the flesh and I really don't want to use it - I just want to hang it on the wall - the Chief Of Staff may have words though.

The primaries are way longer than my MSA header and the secondaries dwarf my existing ones - so I can only imagine this is gonna be great for Low-Mid range torque; and unlike talk, torque is most certainly not cheap - it's deliciously stylish.

I'm glad I opened it as I have no Z scheduled time for 5 weeks and this has spurred me on to MAKE time!!!!

This makes me want to get an AFR!!!!!