E88 Cylinder head thickness and other stuff!

Black Bug

Black Bug

Well-Known Forum User
Hi All,

Well I've just stripped down a cylinder head for the first time in my life - I even bought a nice Stanley compartment case so I could keep each set of valve parts separate from each other!!

What I've learnt is that I must be a wuss because I couldn't for the life of my compress the valve springs by just using the lever on the spring compressor. I had to wind out the threaded rod until I could close the compressor and then wind it back in until I could get the collets out - really looking forward to putting that lot back together!!!

Anyway a couple of questions about the head in general. What is the stock thickness/depth of the head and where do you measure that - obviously from the main face but up to where? It looks like it's been skimmed, no ideas how many times, just want to see if it's been shaved at all as well in case I need to stick in some cam tower shims.

How do you get the valve stem oil seals off? Are they just disposable items and so I should just rip them out or should I guard them as if they where phoenix eggs?!

Should the valve stems be covered in very sticky black oil? I wasn't expecting them to be to be honest, does that mean the oil seals are kaput anyway?

Looking at the valve seats, the intake side seems to be steel but the exhaust seems to be brass. That strikes me as being a bit daft to only replace on set of seats. The inlet valves are 42mm and the exhausts are 34mm, what sizes can I take them up to? In the long term I'm planning for this head to go on to a 2.8+ engine, just not too sure how long long term is going to be so I might pop it on to my current engine just to get it running in, will there be any problems with cylinder wall clearance on a 2.4 using larger valves? At the moment I'm not sure what the cam spec is so I don't know if there's going to be any issues with piston clearance.

Here's some pics:

e88_1.jpg

e88_2.jpg

e88_3.jpg

e88_4.jpg



Cheers,
Rob
 
This head has been skimmed in the past - no sign of the guide depressions seen on a fresh head. At least .035" has gone. Head saver shims under the cam towers will be required to maintain rocker arm geometry and timing chain tension.
Valve stem seals are disposable - never reuse, especially if you have removed a valve through them. The amount of oil seen here would suggest that there may be an issue with the valve guides as well.

Finally found a figure for standard cylinder head thickness (sorry for delay) - 4.248". Head face to cam tower mounting surface which is the same as rocker cover mounting surface.

Heads on the 280ZX have 44mm inlets which can be used to upgrade your head - these will not clear a standard 83mm bore without "eyebrow" cuts being made in the block at the top of each cylinder.
 
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Thanks Mike, I figured it had lost a fair bit of metal from it's face, i'll get the verniers on it tomorrow. Have you got any shims in stock at the mo'?

What's the best sort of spring compressor to ues on these heads? The one I've got looks like this:

13890_VSC1.jpg


I get the feeling that I should've got one more like this though:
VS153.JPG



Anyone got any recommendations for a place to get the head sorted at in Cheshire or South Manchester area? Looking to get the guides changed, inlet seats changed, possibly go up to 44mm on the inlet and a light skim just to make sure everything's ok there.

Can the exhaust valve go up at all in size? Is it worth doing at all?


Cheers,
Rob
 
Just measured the head, it comes in at 4.188" or 106.38mm so that's pretty much spot on 0.03" shaved off. Should do wonders for compression! No doubt it'll be a pain though for valve/piston clearance - oh well :D

Cheers,
Rob
 
For info. I have an E88 head with 2.8 valves, 44mm and 35mm. Block is bored to 86mm. Pistons did have to be machined to give clearance for valves. I have tried to attach pics but file size too big, will add to my gallery.

Head etc. seems to work well.

Your head appears to have had a lot of attention with a grinding stone!
 
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Good news there Rob. I might as well get the valves enlarged if I'm having to replace the guides and have the inlet seats changed to steel. Yep the head has been ported as well, not sure how well but hopefully it'll all help out.

Looking forward to meeting the engine builder who has to sort out the pistons for this job :D

Cheers,
Rob
 
I went down the road you seem to be going but in the end it cost me a lot on money and I couldn't help thinking that to start with a L28 would have made more sense!

I had the engineering work done in Coventry ( Andy Chesman ) and although excellent engineers they didn't have Datsun experience. With so much at stake I decided to get the motor put together properly ( i.e. not by me ) and approached Kevin Irons. I have not regretted that decision.
 
Yep I appreciate what you're saying Rob. I was lucky however to get this engine fairly cheaply off Ebay and as the head already has had work on it I might as well stick with that. I'll most likely sell the block on though that came with it as I believe that enlarging a P30 block isn't recommended anymore than the +1mm that it already has been bored out by.

Where is Kevin Irons based? I do like the idea of having the final engine all put together by someone who has slightly more of an idea than me. I'm just stripping this engine down to get an idea of what's involved in these things and to have a look inside.

Cheers,
Rob
 
I get the feeling that I should've got one more like this though:
Click to expand...

You definitely need the extended OHC version! Life will be so much easier.....

I have head saver shims in stock - each set = .015" thickness.
 
Just heard again from the chap I got the engine from on ebay as he's found a couple of other loose bits. He says the head was supposed to have been done by a guy called Spike who built the Samuri cars. Does anyone know this Spike?

Cheers,
Rob
 
Spike

That will be Spike Anderson then

He and Bob Gathercole were "Samuri racing" --- famous for Datsun modding in the early 70's, did a variant of the Z's with uprated everything, repainted them and called them Samuri's -- try searching for "Big Sam" that should throw up some bed time reading.
 
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And its a well known "fact" that Spike modified every Z cylinder head in Great Britain!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
It would be interesting if either "Z bloke" or "skiddell" could look at your head Black Bug as they both own fully authenticated "Spike" heads and would have the first hand knowledge of what Spikes quality was like.
"Work of art" is the phrase that one of them used in a conversation with me.
 
Just as a matter of interest I had an L16 head done by Spike about 20yrs ago. Worked well once I had replaced rogue valve. Had inlet ports like the mersey tunnel. Mind you I was running on twin 48's ! At the time he was doing heads for Datsun Team Europe run by Andy Dawson [ There's another back of a fag packet engineer ]
 
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