CLASSIC CARS Magazine - here we go again...

Originally posted by Albrecht

And in the light of comments by grolls on this thread, I don't feel a lot of sympathy with my views here either.
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Albrecht,

I think you will find there is a great deal of interest and support for your views and in fact the truth. One of the main issues from a personal perspective is an accute awareness of my limited knowledge and therefore reticence to argue "facts" that I do not actually know. Having read a great deal on many different threads and forums, it becomes preety obvious that Goertz has made a career from glory hunting - something I see everyday in IT Sales - get your name associated with stuff that goes well and deny all knowledge of stuff that doesn't.

Please forgive me talking from a position of ignorance but I believe culturally that the Japnese team involved would not scream and shout their views anyway because it goes against the Japanese ethos and way of doing things. In essence they are not a glory hunting race but take a team view over a personal one.

"Proof" is a strange concept - could you also please prove to me that the moon in fact is NOT made of cream cheese as I have been led to believe it is ?

Thanks for the inciteful and thought provoking debate - fiery, vitriolic sometimes but it pushes me to think about things.
 
well i must admit and i would apolagise for saying that i would no longer respond to this thread but im afraid i cant help myself!!!...

as to regards of sympathy= i dont want any!

"cream cheese"= i could comment here and really offend but wont!

for what its worth just produce your evidence and stop the bull sh*t!

is it that hard to produce it?
after all i and many others would eat humble pie and im sure you would love that!.......continue talking bolloc*s if you will, i shall look forward to the day i eat humble pie(with tommato sauce)
 
Originally posted by grolls
for what its worth just produce your evidence and stop the bull sh*t!

......continue talking bolloc*s if you will, i shall look forward to the day i eat humble pie(with tommato sauce)
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See? :rolleyes:

Like this "evidence" is in some way mine and not already in the public domain.

Steve, I'll put something together for you on the understanding that its just a general facts / events-based reference for the use of journalists. I'll try to keep bias and spin to a minimum, OK?

But you have to understand that nobody can pre-empt something that comes out of left field - like that bonkers L24-engine-to-R34 GT-R-engine link-up that Glen Waddington put in the latest article. After all, if you want hack journalists to get it ALL right you'd have to cover ALL bases - and that would mean writing a whole bloody book of one's own.

I must admit I didn't feel very motivated after the previous long-running thread about Goertz, especially as it turned into the usual bun fight over whether the S30-series Z cars ( or should that be the "DATSUN 240 Zee"? :rolleyes: ) were designed "for" the USA. I shall have to try to re-motivate myself in some way. It looks as though nobody else is going to volunteer then?
 
Albrecht, I would have thought that by now you would be used to the idea on being in a minority(sometimes of one).
Nobody else on the forum hass sufficient knowledge to attempt to write a definitive and in depth piece on the inception and subsequent life of the S30 series.
So we are all waiting for you to write that story.
Of course when you publish it , you will be criticized and some of us will turn it in to a bun fight, but surely that isnt going to deter you??
Brian Long hasnt done a bad job in his books, its just that I and MANY others KNOW that you could do a better one.
So what more motivation do you need??
 
knife and fork at the ready along with lashings of sauce and feeling hungry!

Im looking forward to this post. Maybe steve could put a stickie on it?
 
I apologise for two things - one, that I haven't thrown my gallon (sorry, 4.55 litres) on this earlier and two, I haven't the time this weekend to read all the posts !

I say that I love my Z (s) and do care to know the truth about them, prject, design, realisation, marketing, development - the whole thing and finally the driving of them and meeting via whatever medium is handy other enthusisats.

I like to read that articles appreciate my car but I prefer that they print an accurate story (even if in an article that isn't as kind to it !). Anything less could be seen as patronising !

I respect my dear Count immeasurably for his tenacity in seeking Z knowledge and his constructive attitude in sharing said with us ! When I began in the Z scene (circa '89) I too was ignorant and believed what I read in articles and books. I am grateful for having been exposed as 'ignorant' and have chosen to open my eyes and ears further to accept anything that is out there. This means putting out questions that show my sometimes lack of knowledge but sorry, ignorance is not bliss for me !
The other joy is to carry the truth with me and use that to educate other Z enthusiasts, outside of the UK, Holland, Belgium and Germany, the Z is still seen as it was in the UK in the '80s.
How's that you cry ? Anything from distaste (although less than in the UK) to mythical awe - ALL OF THIS DUE TO IGNORANCE OF THE CAR AND IT'S HISTORY !

As Symon stated earlier in this thread, I along with others would happily try and convert the general idea of our cars using facts and contacting journalists and magazines direct but I need the raw material !

I believe the Z clubs have a responsibility to chase the truth and to report that truth to other enthusiasts and the media particularly !
A section on this site where journalists could be referred too would be a superb beginning ! The same section could be referenced by us 'wandering' crusaders !
 
Hi guys

Thanks fro the complimemt Albrecht, but sadly I do numbers for a living and not words. That means I am not thick so I write as I speak and on this occasion I will try to spell correctly too. Particlrlaly the word Article.

Enough on this topic from me now. The debate has been interesting adn I hope you do write a book Albrecht. Maybe Classicars magazine will review it for you. And I'm sorry I called you pompous.
 
Hi eveybody,

I agree completely with Sean that we need to inform the classic car public about the Z heritage. I am going to take advantage of a long plane flight to put a few words together based on threads placed on the website, books that I have and snippets I´ve picked up by conversations and e mails. I´ll post the document here so that we can all read it, modify and discuss so that we can at least have one version of the truth to use.

Symon
 
Nice one SYMON,Hopefully that will settle it once & for all.
Regard's to all......DJZ 60.
 
Hi DJZ60,

I hope it does settle it once and for all. Anybody got any more points of view that I can include ?

Symon
 


I believe the Z clubs have a responsibility to chase the truth and to report that truth to other enthusiasts and the media particularly !
A section on this site where journalists could be referred too would be a superb beginning ! The same section could be referenced by us 'wandering' crusaders ! [/B]
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How true this statement is sean, but the biggest problem is that the people are the club, and if the people dont share their interest and information the clubs not worth a light!!!!!!!!!!!

im willing to have some input but i feel its a crying shame that there are so many people that are not willing !
 
That is the beauty of it,Nobody has to..................................
Best thing is to let it be,if thing's happen fare enough,if they dont than,life goes on,z's go on & if we cannot look toward's the past than perhap's we can look forward's to the future.
No win No lose situation................................

BEST wishes to Albrecht..... BEST wishes to Groll's......
DJZ 60.
 
I'd very happily add info if I thought I had any that the likes of Albrecht, Mr F, Pmac and others didn't already have. I feel like a copy of the Children's First Dictionary sitting next to the Encyclopaedia Britannica when these guys get going!

TL
 
No matter what you write Symon it wont settle it for once and fo all, cos this is a bit like the "Northern Ireland" problem ! It just wont go away.
Dont let that put you off though Symon. Gather what you can and make a start.
Hopefully The Satirical Count will do likewise in the long dark evenings, as he sits by a ROARING fire in some upper room of the West Wing of his castle. I must back off baiting him for a while.
 
"Long live the count, Have a good break in transylvannia & come
back fully transfused ....................all the best. DJZ 60.
 
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