suzy
Well-Known Forum User
Ian Patmore said:.........seems to fall of deaf ears...
It may have taken me a few days but I have tracked down the "offending" ZGs and they have now been changed on the Z Club membership listing
Ian Patmore said:.........seems to fall of deaf ears...
Gio said:Aha! Now we're getting somewhere . So the question now is where did the Membership Secretary get these designations from? Again maybe DVLA or is it what the member claims on his/her subscription form?
Gio said:If it's the DVLA, then there is little that can be done. If it's a member's claim then I can't see any reason why the Membership Secretary would see a reason to dispute. EG my Z is in club records designated differently to what is on my V5 - and that's because the DVLA is wrong.
Gio said:And at the moment, especially since the Club valuation guru hasn't been asked to validate these cars, I can't see where any fraud would arise. OK as a Club we should be careful about facts per se but, unlike the New York Times, we do not have a highly paid team of fact checkers. That's what this forum is for! (At least in part hehe).
Gio said:( quote: Albrecht: "if the DVLA had registered a car as a "240ZG" or "260ZG" then that information must have come from the person filling in the V5 application." )
er, not necessarily. In fact almost definitely not. According to the DVLA and SMMT when I went through this with them at some length, new UK cars supplied by dealers have their details put onto the DVLA system by the supplying dealer and the whole thing is computerised so the dealer systems talks to the DVLA directly. There are rarely errors in model designations here for the obvious reasons.
Gio said:However, for imported s/h cars, the info on the V5 application form is completed by the importer (who may be a dealer, not very knowledgable or not give 2 hoots). It is then handed to a drone at the DVLA Local office who amble off to punch it into their system and they have to select from a list which appears when they start looking up Nissan. They model they select may not have any relation to the real thing. EG that is why we have so many apparent Z31s - the drone looks up 300ZX and is presented with a list where Z31 appears before Z32 so they just click that. Bingo - a Z32 registered as a Z31.
Ian Patmore said:Grolls,
I think maybe Alan would help us (the club ) be more of a "font of all knowledge", about Datsun and Nissan, but if we as the club can't get the basics right about use of the standard Datsun/Nissan terminology/history ( e.g the Gnose) and other issues, which Alan has commented on. Most of the time it seems to fall of deaf ears, so I can see why Alan can't really be arsed to try and get us to get it right.
suzy said:It may have taken me a few days but I have tracked down the "offending" ZGs and they have now been changed on the Z Club membership listing
Albrecht said:I guess it is up to each individual member to decide what they want to call their own car, but this should not mean that the owners club should give this a stamp of authority and implied approval by publishing such half truths on a written list of member cars.
Albrecht said:In Japan it is illegal to pass off a car as a '240ZG' if it did not leave the factory as one (all sales descriptions, insurance declarations and ownership documents have to clearly state that it is a replica or modified car ). The owners clubs in Japan would never knowingly sanction such activity either.
Albrecht said:Interesting that my own car should now be having questions asked of it
it is almost impossible to prove that there is NOT another one out there in UK territory lying unpublicised, unrecognised or undiscovered.
Albrecht said:So, like I say; "show me another"...........
Ian Patmore said:.....and other issues, which Alan has commented on. Most of the time it seems to fall of deaf ears, so I can see why Alan can't really be arsed to try and get us to get it right.
Albrecht said:thanks for finding the article in question.
Can anyone quote, or better still attach a scan of the article?
Albrecht said:So are you saying that nobody in the club will be responsible for policing issues like these?
Albrecht said:I think the club has a duty to correct them
Regrettably that is the legal position even if us pedants don't think it to be right. OTOH if the Club were to "officially" confirm a wrong identity to underpin a financial transaction then there is a potential problem in becoming involved in a fraud case as accessory or witness. So even if there is no legal basis on us controlling what anyone chooses to call their car, we do need to be careful when confirming or reporting such claims. And I think there is a "moral" duty to get these things right.Albrecht said:..a club member can pass his/her car off as whatever they like, with no correction or sanction from the club?
Yep, sounds misleading to me (just bear in mind here I speak as a non-expert in Zs). Shame I missed that argument as I would have piled in as a pedant-in-training.Albrecht said:Gio, I remember having a fairly heated exchange on here just a few months ago with a club member who insisted that he had the right to call his car a "240ZG V8". This was a well-known UK-market 240Z with a Rover V8 conversion and some replicated panels that were vaguely based on those of the ZG. It was NOT a factory-built ZG. Calling it a "240ZG" was hugely misleading.
I didn't know that - in fact, I don't think my importer would have known what a shakken-sho was and I'm pretty certain the DVLA office didn't either. Clearly I wasn't persistent enough with the DVLA - I just gave up. Maybe I need more pedant training! And it is easy to see why people would just shrug and put up with whatever the drone had filled in.Albrecht said:The key point on a Japanese import is the original Japanese 'shakken sho' - which will have the CORRECT data on it, and it is the responsibility of the person applying for a V5 to make sure that the DVLA get it right. It can be put right retrospectively if you are persistent enough..........
Now I think that may be a little harsh. Within days of you (rightly) bringing this up, club officials and members noted, investigatedAlbrecht said:But that's clearly not what we are dealing with here is it? It would appear that this is a case of club members deciding to ignore the factory designation of their vehicles, and reassign them with either another factory designation ( not legal, decent, honest or truthful ) or make up a spurious designation that sounds like a factory designation. I think the club has a duty to correct them if they are going to be listed on any club documentation that will be used as reference material, or form part of a club archive.
Pete, out of interest, what does it say on your V5? And, come to that, what does it say on the V5s of those 350Z boys who get a turbo conversion?parmenter said:as it is not a true 280zx turbo but a janspeed conversion !
datsun dave said:So alan are you going to join the Z Club with the UK's only 240ZG ?
or can you bring it to Silverstone ?
zedhead260 said:It’s the member that names his / her car – we have ZVR’s, 240GTR’s, 500ZX’s, some people even give their cars female names !!!
zedhead260 said:But the “pet names” do appear in Japan too. I have seen a 240ZG (which most likely wasn’t) and a 280ZG advertised for sale on Japanese web sites.
Of course, not being able to read the text, there may have been the disclaimer – but should the buyer of the “240ZG” joined Club S30 (or whoever) and stated that it was a ZG on his membership form – who / what would be the process of confirming that ? (Especially if they chose not to be particularly active by coming to meetings etc).
zedhead260 said:I’ve made the enquiry as I hear of a white one that’s been here for 15 years or so, but unfortunately has so far lead to nothing.
So, I’ll get back to you on that one – but please don’t shoot me if it does turn out to be a load of bollocks, or indeed, doesn't turn out to be anything at all.
zedhead260 said:I know for a fact we have S30 Fairlady Z’s, Z31 200 & 300ZR’s and we really need to be differentiating between all those Z32 Fairlady’s and the Z32 300ZXTT’s etc.
Russ said:So to solve all this (and I agree maybe misleading names aren't in anyones best interest) would calling something with a Gnose a ZG Rep be ok? Or does a rep have to have EVERYTHING the same as if it were the same car, but 'spritually' isn't?
So perhaps not quite such a minefield? Seems reasonable enough to me.Albrecht said:I have absolutely NO problem with accurate, tasteful and well-intentioned replicas, as long as nobody is claiming or implying that they are The Real Thing.
zedhead260 said:It's called "Essential Datsun Z - 240Z to 280ZX", and was written by non other than Colin Shipway (aka 260ZG on this forum).
There is a photo on page 25 showing a ZG (not a very flattering angle I might add), with a few words on the following page which quite clearly states that there are Nissan originals and copies. He even shows a photo of his own car on page 77 which clearly states it as a "G-nose" kit, flared arches and a Kaminari rear wing.
Gio said:And I think there is a "moral" duty to get these things right.
Gio said:I didn't know that - in fact, I don't think my importer would have known what a shakken-sho was and I'm pretty certain the DVLA office didn't either. Clearly I wasn't persistent enough with the DVLA - I just gave up.
parmenter said:Just thought i would add is there not a 240zg racing car over here? or is it a `zg` kitted car if so rally news needs to be corrected to for the last many years !!!!!!!!!!!!
parmenter said:I suppose i better change my car name as it is not a true 280zx turbo but a janspeed conversion ! tut tut