Can I ask a question?

[Albrecht]

Hi Alan
do you know which edition of the Z Club magazine this was printed in?
Thanks

Suzy,
I'll ask my friend if he can confirm in which issue he saw the list, and hopefully on which page.

But surely it must be pretty easy to track down by scanning through a few of the more recent magazines - no?

i do currently own a orginal 240zg which at the momentsits in chiba tokyo japan cost £15.000 maroon late 1972 not mint but good condition and complete arrive june onlly done 40.000 app gen one owner have photo will send editor some asap

Congratulations on your purchase, and I wish you luck and good fun with it. The more imports of good condition early Japanese cars the better, I say. The more the merrier. I assume though that your car is not one of the cars that the list included (?).

If the car cost you the equivalent of £15,000 to buy in Japan then it will cost you the other side of £20,000 by the time it is in the UK with all taxes and duties paid. You'll be wanting to insure it to reflect that fact, and I presume you might ask for an agreed value with a declaration of value backed up by a UK owners club ( for example ). This is where you might start to understand what it is exactly that I'm getting at regarding the potential conflict between proper authentication, and the misrepresentation of cars that are already in the UK. Will you be wanting your car to be categorised as essentially the same thing as a UK market car with some non-factory additions? I think not.

By the way, Chiba is a prefecture and Tokyo is a city. Think ( for example ) Essex and London. Your car can be in one or the other, but not both at the same time.





Thanks to Gio for some wise words. Unfortunately Sean has shown that the natural tendency for some people is to avoid the actual issue under discussion and focus on another entirely; namely my non-member status, as though making me a reluctant member would solve the problem. It won't.

I think this requires a change of thinking at the heart of the club. Would the GTR Owners Club endorse a GTS that was pretending to be a GTR as the equivalent of the real thing? I think not.

 

[SeanDezart]

No Count, I recognise your point and it is valid ! I'm not sure if the Skyline Register or any other register are too bothered - anyone who knows the cars would spot an 'intruder' if sold as a genuine GTR or ZG and for those who don't know the difference, that is what joining a club is about !

Aha, I hear you say, but The Z Club have been (unwittingly or otherwise) circulating incorrect information. That is why you have a valid point and also as regards original and genuine Japanese imported S30s; The Club does need to recognise these genuine cars as being different and any and all help to advise The Club I'm sure would be welcomed.

That help would be most constructive from an active member, working within, with the addition of an article now and then to educate the UK !

If that comes from a reluctant member, I agree, it doesn't have the same value but I wish you wouldn't appear now and then, criticise The Club and disappear. Please don't point the finger, lift a hand to help - you know it's needed !

All this aside, I'm very curious to know how your replica is coming along - there were some pictures of it in a mag. not long ago but nothing since !

Regards.

 

[suzy]

Suzy,
I'll ask my friend if he can confirm in which issue he saw the list, and hopefully on which page.

But surely it must be pretty easy to track down by scanning through a few of the more recent magazines - no?

Was it one of the more recent issue?
I have seen Z Club magazines dating back to the early 80s up on ebay recently.

 

[suzy]

i do currently own a orginal 240zg which at the momentsits in chiba tokyo japan cost £15.000 maroon late 1972 not mint but good condition and complete arrive june onlly done 40.000 app gen one owner have photo will send editor some asap 752

Sounds excellent - looking for to seeing photos - or hopefully in the "metal"

 

[parmenter]

240zg From Valuation Office!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I hate to put a dampner on this thread but seeing as on a couple of occasions the valuations department ! has been mentioned i must write and say that since i took over in 1995 approx I have never valued a 240zg or 260zg to my knowledge so no misleading there.

I have valued many `modified` 240z,260z over the years but never said they are zg`s yes back in the early 90`s I saw the 240zg at goodwood very nice too but never valued it and i thought at the time that the car was a members car so i may be wrong on that but the club represents the zrange.

I thought and i believe that no one is misleading anyone so can we please lay of about the cars being valued by me !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I take that as slander to my character again I do not understand some people on here what is the big deal anyway? I think I am getting too old and cynical now this must to laid to rest about the vauations of these cars and I hope this helps thankyou

 

[parmenter]

Have A Look

ANYONE INTERESTED HAVE A READ OF THIS http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datsun_240Z#240ZG

 

[zedhead260]

I've had a flick through my magazine collection which dates back to Autumn 1991.

Most "How Many" type articles are statistics we get from the SMMT.
In relation to S30 cars, the only breakdown we get is 240Z & 260Z (inc' 2+2).

I may have found the article in question from the Summer 1999 edition where Membership Secretary Stuart Phillips writes a 240Z census based on the previous years figures.

Here he writes -

"In the recent 6-page Z review in Practical Classics they quoted Alan Thomas as being the only owner with an original G-nose 240Z in the country. That would appear to be a fair claim, Alan - the authentic ZG as imported from Japan. Other G-noses mentioned (very rare) look as if they are on non-original bodykits. For example, long time member Graham Illsley has one for a 260Z that is currently off the road. Alan and Graham must be among the real 'purists'. Interestingly, they also have the only other 240Z's described as Fairlady."

As you can see, it isn't very well written - I think can understand what he is trying to say, but I can also see where some confusion could arise from this too.

..................................................

Now I have just read post #1 - This can't be the magazine in question as you are questioning 2 240ZG's.

Just out of interest Al', how do you know for certain yours is the only 240ZG ??

 

[ZHead]

ANYONE INTERESTED HAVE A READ OF THIS http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datsun_240Z#240ZG

Great link, however, a G-Nose is obviously an aftermarket option whereas a ZG is a factory produced model - semantics and hair splitting maybe but kind of important if you have a real ZG.

It must be true................it was on a website

 

[Gio]

But surely it must be pretty easy to track down by scanning through a few of the more recent magazines - no?

asked and answered:

I've had a flick through my magazine collection which dates back to Autumn 1991.
..................................................
Now I have just read post #1 - This can't be the magazine in question as you are questioning 2 240ZG's.

So I think the ball is now back in the Count's court - or his Japanese friend's. Rob can't find the article in question having gone back 16 years and Pete (Club Valuation Officer) has denied ever valuing a ZG. We can't be sure what was said in which mag or who claimed to say it until someone finds the article which kicked the whole thing off in the first place. I think it would be a lot easier if Count's friend could at least give the year and issue of the alleged mag if not a scan of the offending article - a lot easier, that is, than the rest of us trying to guess.

For the moment, my money is on the disputed model refs coming in some way from the DVLA as I know these stats are simply wrong. And I believe this explanation more likely than either of Rob, Pete or the Count being wrong.

 

[Mr Ex]

Why doesn't someone import a Z432? Alan?

 

[Albrecht]

So I think the ball is now back in the Count's court - or his Japanese friend's.

Gio,
I've asked my friend Mr M. to get back to me with the issue date and page number. I'll just have to wait for his reply.

I do remember him saying that it was a 2006 year issue ( surely there's only four issues in a year? ) so I can't imagine this can be all that difficult to locate......... ( ? ).

For the moment, my money is on the disputed model refs coming in some way from the DVLA as I know these stats are simply wrong.

Well, maybe they ARE figures / statistics from the DVLA and/or SMMT. But I'd have thought they would not be reported without comment from the magazine contributor that thought them fit to publish?

I know the DVLA can throw out all kinds of rubbish ( I've had my own run-ins with them over the years ) but - and I think this is important - I can't imagine how they could dream up a "240ZG" or ( even more fantastically, seeing as such a model was never sold to the general public ) a "260ZG" on their own. I would say that if the DVLA had registered a car as a "240ZG" or "260ZG" then that information must have come from the person filling in the V5 application. Without wanting to be over dramatic about it, if the cars in question are NOT the factory-built models that they are claimed to be, that would be fraud - would it not?

Quoting such without comment looks like an endorsement by the club - in my opinion.

The club's 'Valuations Officer' has not to his knowledge inspected or valued a "240ZG" or "260ZG", which obviously exonerates him from any blame or repercussions. Makes these ghostly cars seem even more likely to be objects of their owners' imaginations, I'd say. We certainly don't seem to be getting any closer to them, do we?

Just out of interest Al', how do you know for certain yours is the only 240ZG ??

This kind of question could easily turn the thread into a philosophical debate. Interesting that my own car should now be having questions asked of it rather than these ( fictitious? ) "240ZGs" and the ( ha ha ) "260ZG" quoted in the club magazine.

The most succinct reply to the question would probably be, "show me another". I would welcome more genuine factory HS30-H models into the UK, but they had damned well better be real ones if their owners are going to claim them as such. But like my Skyline GT-R, it is almost impossible to prove that there is NOT another one out there in UK territory lying unpublicised, unrecognised or undiscovered. There is always a lot of talk, but it almost always proves to be mistake or fantasy in the end.

So, like I say; "show me another"...........

 

[SeanDezart]

Why doesn't someone import a Z432? Alan?

££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££ !

Count, have you perused this (as a spin-off and stimulated by this thread) ?

http://www.zclub.net/forum/showthread.php?t=8583#post76852

 

[zedhead260]

Gio,
I do remember him saying that it was a 2006 year issue ( surely there's only four issues in a year? ) so I can't imagine this can be all that difficult to locate......... ( ? ).

Found it !!!! Autumn 2006 in the Membership Secretary report page 6 (sorry, must have had a blind moment....hey, I had lots of mags to skim through).

240Z = 1 x ZG
260Z = 1 x ZG

 

[Ian Patmore]

Beat me to it.
I knew I had seen it recently. As the way the thread has been going quite rightly from Alans point of view, about the wrongly added "G's", don't you think from the list Rob has found, the Samuri and GTO can be listed separately? Within the list theres 280zx with 2 turbos, Z31 with 7 turbos etc.
Now these are the factory fitted cars, yes, so why can't this be format kept with the S30 model? I am more than happy that the "G/samuri/GTO/S30 turbos/V8" to be listed and they have their place within the "z scene", but they have been modified from the standard form. Ok, there are alot of cars that are modified from the standard form, but they aren't listed as being something else, so why should the adding of a G nose make them any special?

Ian

 

[Gio]

Found it !!!! Autumn 2006 in the Membership Secretary report page 6 (sorry, must have had a blind moment....hey, I had lots of mags to skim through).

240Z = 1 x ZG
260Z = 1 x ZG

Aha! Now we're getting somewhere . So the question now is where did the Membership Secretary get these designations from? Again maybe DVLA or is it what the member claims on his/her subscription form?

Just to let you know - I have no axe to grind on this one, I'm just intrigued by this sort of thing having spend two rather fruitless years banging my head against the DVLA, SMMT and then giving up.

If it's the DVLA, then there is little that can be done. If it's a member's claim then I can't see any reason why the Membership Secretary would see a reason to dispute. EG my Z is in club records designated differently to what is on my V5 - and that's because the DVLA is wrong.

And at the moment, especially since the Club valuation guru hasn't been asked to validate these cars, I can't see where any fraud would arise. OK as a Club we should be careful about facts per se but, unlike the New York Times, we do not have a highly paid team of fact checkers. That's what this forum is for! (At least in part hehe).

if the DVLA had registered a car as a "240ZG" or "260ZG" then that information must have come from the person filling in the V5 application.

er, not necessarily. In fact almost definitely not. According to the DVLA and SMMT when I went through this with them at some length, new UK cars supplied by dealers have their details put onto the DVLA system by the supplying dealer and the whole thing is computerised so the dealer systems talks to the DVLA directly. There are rarely errors in model designations here for the obvious reasons.

However, for imported s/h cars, the info on the V5 application form is completed by the importer (who may be a dealer, not very knowledgable or not give 2 hoots). It is then handed to a drone at the DVLA Local office who amble off to punch it into their system and they have to select from a list which appears when they start looking up Nissan. They model they select may not have any relation to the real thing. EG that is why we have so many apparent Z31s - the drone looks up 300ZX and is presented with a list where Z31 appears before Z32 so they just click that. Bingo - a Z32 registered as a Z31.

Similarly, my Z32 is given as a 300 ZX 2+2 (note the space between 300 and ZX) and I will put money on the fact that other Z32 Twin Turbo 2+2s will have different Model/Type than this.

It all reminds me of a joke which went round when the DVLC went computerised Q "how do you confuse the DVLC?" A" Ring 'em up and ask 'em what day it is" (I use DVLC deliberately to show the age of that joke...)

 

[suzy]

OK I have looked on the database and have found the two members that have listed their cars as 240ZG and 260ZG

The membership secretary just takes the details they are given - and that is all they can work with.

I will be in touch with the two members to see about updating our records.
As I am sure you appreciate I can not name names.

 

[grolls]

Well here goes,
This thread I feel is rather out of hand. Alan I feel its great to have your input and interest, but you do nothing to help us be the "font of all knowledge" so to speak. I have no ideas on what went on during the 60's,70,s and 80,s regarding Datsun and Nissan compared to you and I never will, however If it was easily accesible I would read it. I have no intent to research it as do many others.The marque will eventually die if the information is not brought up easily by enthusiats like you for us all to read and get excited by as today's young drivers simply will not be interested in information from 30 years ago ,sad as it may be, but very true.

 

[Russ]

www.aboutz.net, the Z encyclopedia I created but never took off, perfect place for people to have added such information.

Maybe one day it'll have content?

 

[SeanDezart]

The marque will eventually die if the information is not brought up easily by enthusiats like you for us all to read and get excited by as today's young drivers simply will not be interested in information from 30 years ago

True !

The Z Club has a responsability here or all Eddie Millers' initial enterprise was for nothing ! See where is The Z Club heading !

 

[Ian Patmore]

Grolls,
I think maybe Alan would help us (the club ) be more of a "font of all knowledge", about Datsun and Nissan, but if we as the club can't get the basics right about use of the standard Datsun/Nissan terminology/history ( e.g the Gnose) and other issues, which Alan has commented on. Most of the time it seems to fall of deaf ears, so I can see why Alan can't really be arsed to try and get us to get it right.

Ian