Albrect

[datsun dave]

Hi Albrect,
You put some pictures up some weeks ago from a visit you made to Japan
one of the picture shows a white 240z big polished wheels with the bonnet open
On the wheel arches have they used the a ZG Flare Kit ?
Also how do they differ moding there cars as to ours

Thanks Dave

 

[Legendary5]

The Count's name is Albrecht and he is very precise in that…..

 

[datsun dave]

Sorry "count Albrecht"

 

[Albrecht]

Dave,

'Albrecht' is one of my middle names ( yes, really ). It is usually others that call me a 'count'

Do you mean this thread here?: http://www.zclub.net/forum/showthread.php?t=5262

Probably you are referring to Sato san's car ( see pic attached below ).

Yes, he has used a set of 'Overfenders' ( that's what Nissan called them ) modelled on those used by the Fairlady 240ZG model ( I refuse to call them "Flares" ). Nissan first introduced this type of 'Overfender' for the S30-series Z as a 'Sports Option; part for the Fairlady Z-432R model in late 1969, and they were homologated for race use on that model. They were later used on the 240ZG production model ( itself created and sold to the public in order to homologate parts for race use ) and that 'ZG' term has entered the vernacular.

Also how do they differ moding there cars as to ours

Phew, where to start? I think the pictures kind of speak for themselves in many respects.

If you are talking about modified cars rather than period-correct restorations and originals, I think overall the impression is that they generally use ideas, parts and know-how that are based on a fairly long history of car modification in Japan. Of course, we are seeing more modern interpretations of the 'tradition' ( 17 and 18 inch wheels, modern engine management and a smattering of high-tech materials for example ) but I think many of the modifications seen in Japan are linked to things from the car's history.

For example, Nissan's own 'Works' race cars ( and the parts they used on them ) made an enormous impression when they were current, and this does not get forgotten. If you draw parallels with - for example - the 'Works' Mk.1 Escorts here in the UK, I think it can be interesting.

So in the way an Escort fan might talk about 'Type 49' bodyshells, bubble arches, 'World Cup' crossmembers, '4 Link' kits and 'Springalex' steering wheels, a Japanese early-Z fan might talk about such things as 'PZR' bodyshells, 'Ikeda Bussan' bucket seats, 'Monte Carlo' bumpers, 'Safari' heads and 'Compe' or 'Checkman' steering wheels.

Its all a question of reference points and the 'vocabulary' that they draw on.........

Of course, just like any 'language' this vocabularly has changed and evolved over the years - so we end up at a situation now where your common and modern type of street-tuned 'Kaizosha' ( 'Modified Car', like the 180 / 200SX, R32 / R33 / R34 GT-R, etc etc ) as well as current and recent race cars and cars such as are seen in the 'D1' drift series have an influence on fashions in modification of S30-series Z cars. It all goes into the same pot.

Does that make sense?

 

[datsun dave]

Thanks Albrecht Love Sato San's car and the overfenders thank you for the infomation you have supplied yes it make sense . "Kaizosha" you talk about is a modified classic car ? do you know is there symbol for "Kaizosha" .Also are you the chap with the brown ZG ?

Dave

 

[Albrecht]

Thanks Albrecht Love Sato San's car and the overfenders thank you for the infomation you have supplied yes it make sense . "Kaizosha" you talk about is a modified classic car ? do you know is there symbol for "Kaizosha".

You are welcome.

Probably the best direct translation of 'Kaizosha' from Japanese to English would be 'modified car'. Not necessarily either modern or classic.

'Kaizo' means 'modified', and 'sha' means 'car'. In Japanese it is most commonly written in Kanji ( Chinese-origin ideogram ) characters. I'll have to see how I could post the characters on this forum - I might have to cut and paste them and attach as a picture file. Bear with me.

Also are you the chap with the brown ZG ?

Yes. Nissan called it 'Grand Prix Maroon'.

 

[datsun dave]

Nice One

 

[zedhead260]

Yes. Nissan called it 'Grand Prix Maroon'.

.....although brown is a much better desciption than maroon, eh ?

 

[Albrecht]

Its definitely brown. Not red enough to be called a proper maroon.

'Grand Prix Maroon' is one of those unfortunate Japanese typos that became set in stone. The Japanese have used the French word 'Marron' for many years when describing dark brown ( Marron = Chestnut ). 'Grand Prix Marron' was accidentally written as 'Grand Prix Maroon' by somebody at Nissan and it stuck...............

True story.

 

[ZHead]

So how did they end up with duck shit yellow/mustard ? (urban myth)

 

[Russ]

Sorry for thread hijack.

What are the quality of the overfenders like, and do they fit well?

I only ask because I love the look of them, and know that you can get carbonfibre ones, however i'm always dubious about anything like this, would I want to make holes in a perfectly good original wing?

Another thing count, when you mention that Japanese Z modders may talk about specific brands that go with Zs (i.e. 'Ikeda Bussan' bucket seats), is there any easy (web) way of finding these brands and such? Is there the Japanese equivalent of MSA in Japan? I sometimes bump into odd modifying Z websites, but usually they are out of date, or very poor. I know your club doesn't have a website, is there anything you can recommend for someone trying to make an authentic Japanese modified Z?

 

[Tony 260Z]

That car is UTTERLY, UTTERLY GORGEOUS...

I bought a set of those flares (in GRP) and then sold 'em when I didn't use them!

 

[datsun dave]

Russ mike feeney @ MJP does the carbon ZG "OVERFENDER" have got some prices off him .Just love the look on Sato sans car but where am i going to get the wheels from ?
Have seen a green 240z over here with a set on.

 

[240z]

Dave - looks like you've got a similar idea to go with your car as I have!

so far I only have the airdam but slowly am starting to get the parts sourced.

I was thinking of getting the overfenders from this place: http://www.classicdatsun.com/new/240_glass.html

but i'm still not sure how good a copy they are.

What I am after though is a set of watanabe wheels, konig do a set of reasonable copies, but only in 15s, I need 16s to get over the brakes.

But if you are after a set of wheels similar-ish to the ones to Sato san's car, I'm willing to part with mine in order to make way for the watanabe.. The wheels are Japanese Stich 'Evolution', and were apparently wickedly expensive when imported into Oz

 

[Albrecht]

"Kaizosha" you talk about is a modified classic car ? do you know is there symbol for "Kaizosha"

I'm hoping that this will work, and will be viewable on this post:


改造車


That's three Kanji characters - 'Kai', 'zo' and 'sha'.

Improved 'translation' from Japanese to English: 'Kai' means modify or change, 'zo' is to create and 'sha' is vehicle or more commonly car.

The Kanji shows up on my computer OK - but can everybody else see it?

 

[Albrecht]

So how did they end up with duck shit yellow/mustard ? (urban myth)

920 ( called 'Gold' in Export markets ) was called 'Safari Brown' by Nissan in the Japanese market.

The Japanese nick-name for it translates as 'Baby Sh*t Brown'.

I actually really like it........

 

[Mr.G]

Yes I can see it.

Can you see this?

あなたに感謝しなさい

 

[Albrecht]

What are the quality of the overfenders like, and do they fit well?

Depends who made them, Russ. The original Factory items are very thin and flexible, and you can virtually see through them if you hold them up to the light. Most of the Japanese-made copies are also quite thin, and conform to the shape of the car when they are rivetted on. Nissan used big pop rivets to attach them to the body of the car.

I've personally seen 'replicas' made outside Japan ( don't know who made them ) that were about three times as thick as the originals and almost solid. Very odd. I can't imagine how they were supposed to fit properly, and they weighed a lot. They were also poorly moulded. Probably copies of copies of copies of copies.........

..........would I want to make holes in a perfectly good original wing?

It's a bit of a one-way street isn't it? Once you've drilled and pop-rivetted, that's it. No going back. Unless you take it back to bare metal and weld the holes up again.....

......when you mention that Japanese Z modders may talk about specific brands that go with Zs (i.e. 'Ikeda Bussan' bucket seats), is there any easy (web) way of finding these brands and such? Is there the Japanese equivalent of MSA in Japan? I sometimes bump into odd modifying Z websites, but usually they are out of date, or very poor. I know your club doesn't have a website, is there anything you can recommend for someone trying to make an authentic Japanese modified Z?

No short cuts that I know of. You just have to get your head down, get into it and gradually absorb as much as you can.

Understanding the aftermarket ( both 'period' and contemporary ) is a big job, and I would recommend concentrating on period OEM and Sports Option / Works parts and specs first.
Example: I mentioned 'Ikeda Bussan' bucket seats. These were first seen on the Fairlady Z-432R in 1969, and were simple FRP non-reclining bucket seats covered with a hopsack-weave cloth similar to that seen on office chairs. They were also used on the Works rally cars. However, Ikeda Bussan is one of Nissan's largest suppliers of car seats ( to this day ) - so the history and information all starts to fit together like a big jigsaw puzzle once you start to get enough pieces.....

There's no Japanese equivalent to 'MSA' for the S30-series Z. The old car parts business in Japan consists mainly of small shops, garages and marque specialist restorers.

Biggest single-shot dose of 'education' is to go to a show or meeting in Japan where there are a lot of S30-series Z cars. Other than that, I can only recommend specialist magazines and books.

 

[Albrecht]

Yes I can see it.

Can you see this?

あなたに感謝しなさい

George, did you use a 'machine translation' to make that? If you showed that to a native Japanese speaker, they might be surprised and a little taken aback......

It reads: "Anata-ni kansha shi nasai" - roughly translating as 'Thank you to yourself'.....

The software just doesn't do it justice, does it?

Cheers,
Alan T.

 

[Mr.G]

ha ha.. no the software doesnt! Well at least Google calls it a beta version.