2 questions !

[SeanDezart]

Why do 240Zs and 280Zs share the same chassis numbers ? HS30 !

I had a terrible time helping someone register a 280Z over here and eventually it has '240Z' on the docs. with a note underneath stating that it is a 280Z ! The computer wouldn't accept HLS30 for anything other than a 240Z. I know that the 280Z wasn't homologated here but neither was the 260Z 2 seater but one can register an RLS30 - I know of two over here.

And did the 280Z have bonnet louvres because it was found that after nearly 6 years of production, under-bonnet temps needed help ? I thought that Nissan had a continuous improvement program (so typical of the Japanese) and in which case, I'm surprised it wasn't seen before - it could have helped the 260Z at least !

 

[datsun dave]

And did the 280Z have bonnet louvres because it was found that after nearly 6 years of production, under-bonnet temps needed help ? I thought that Nissan had a continuous improvement program (so typical of the Japanese) and in which case, I'm surprised it wasn't seen before - it could have helped the 260Z at least !

Are you talking 280z USA or 280ZX UK ?

 

[SeanDezart]

6 years of production 1969+6 = 1975, the year the 280Z came out !

 

[Albrecht]

Why do 240Zs and 280Zs share the same chassis numbers ? HS30 !

There's no such thing as an HS30 '280Z' model. The north American market '280Z' models of the S30-series were prefixed 'HLS30'.........

The prefix only tells half the story anyway. The factory used suffixes as well, but they were not usually seen on the cars.

Historically, Nissan have used the letter 'H' prefix to signify a few different things, including a larger engine capacity than a variant sold alongside it ( EG: 'S30-S' Fairlady Z with L20A engine and 'HS30-S' Fairlady 240Z with L24 engine ) or an Export market variant that differs from a domestic model. It is just a marker that gives a clue to a bigger story. To cover the subject properly, you'd need to look into as many different Nissan models as you could and cross-reference your findings. There's no point just looking at Z models.

And did the 280Z have bonnet louvres because it was found that after nearly 6 years of production, under-bonnet temps needed help ? I thought that Nissan had a continuous improvement program (so typical of the Japanese) and in which case, I'm surprised it wasn't seen before - it could have helped the 260Z at least !

What's your point here? Those bonnet louvres were added to the S30-series '280Z' model ( don't forget that there was an S130-series '280Z' model too..... ) because it was decided that they had become necessary. You write about the "260Z" - but what model, and in what market?

The S30-series '280Z' model was fitted with Nissan's ECGI, and an increasing amount of anti-pollution gear was being added. A great number of these cars were being used in some of the hottest states of the USA. Engine bay temperatures were getting hotter and hotter. What more needs to be said?

 

[SeanDezart]

Thankyou for the correction - of course HLS30, I was addressing a UK audience and forgot myself !

Still strange though that the RLS30 had it's own identity and Nissan went back to HLS30 for the 280Z, especially when there can't have been many GLS30s sold, certainly not in comparison with HLS30s !

To determine the difference, do we need to refer to series 1 HLS30s (240Z export) and series 2 HLS30s (280Zs) ?

But emissions equipment had been fitted to US (and in particular) Californian HLS30s and GLS30s since, when ? 1973 ? So why wait until a new model to change the bonnet ?

The L28E was introduced to conform with the ever inceasing anti-pollution laws wasn't it, not just to cater for a handful of hot states ; yes, the RLS30 carbs. don't have a good reputation but I understood that the 280Zs' engine had been in the process of being developed since several years previously and certainly during the life-span of the HLS30, I mean 240Z !

 

[Albrecht]

........there can't have been many GLS30s sold, certainly not in comparison with HLS30s !

Quantity of "GLS30s" sold = zero.

There's a good case to be made for Nissan to have tried to keep these prefixes as simple as possible, as you don't seem to be able to quote them correctly.....

To determine the difference, do we need to refer to series 1 HLS30s (240Z export) and series 2 HLS30s (280Zs) ?

Why try to make it more complicated by adding your own made-up terminology? There's enough to differentiate the two 'HLS30' prefixed variants ( and their sub-variants ) when you look at the actual cars and their suffixes, so why make such hard work for yourself? If La France's vehicle licensing agency can't recognise the later one then that's their problem. It is hardly unusual; According to the DVLA my 'S30' prefixed 1970 Fairlady Z-L is actually a "Fairlady Turbo"...........

But emissions equipment had been fitted to US (and in particular) Californian HLS30s and GLS30s since, when ? 1973 ? So why wait until a new model to change the bonnet ?

The L28E was introduced to conform with the ever inceasing anti-pollution laws wasn't it, not just to cater for a handful of hot states ; yes, the RLS30 carbs. don't have a good reputation but I understood that the 280Zs' engine had been in the process of being developed since several years previously and certainly during the life-span of the HLS30, I mean 240Z !

I'm sorry, I don't understand what point you are trying to make or what question you are actually expecting an answer to? The engine spec on the HLS30 '280Z', and the emissions equipment attached to it ( especially the 'California' state spec ), was quite different to what had been available before it. If the increasingly hot engine bay temps of these models made Nissan decide to use vented bonnets then so what? You seem to be implying either that they didn't need them, or that earlier models should have had them too (?).

You can go through almost every single item on early and late cars in this way - comparing merits and de-merits, so why focus only on the vented bonnet?

 

[SeanDezart]

Effectively, I don't know where the 'G' came from ! Do you have any world-wide sales figures for the RLS30s ?

My point is that the S30s always seemed to be suffering from fuel vapourisation, people in the UK complain of it where temperatures aren't 'hot' so I'm curious why Nissan didn't introuduce so simple a cure earlier.
Begs the question why ?

Too mant unvented bonnets to sell ?
Wait until a new model (with potential heat problems with emissions equipment ?) is launched - this doesn't appear to hold up though as injection is a sure fire way of avoiding fuel vapourisation - at least, I've never heard of a 280ZX owner complain of it !

As for almost every single item on early and late cars - what, in your opinion where the de-merits of later cars ?

 

[Mr Ex]

injection is a sure fire way of avoiding fuel vapourisation - at least, I've never heard of a 280ZX owner complain of it !

My 260 with 280 Inj fitted cured it's vapourisation problem.

 

[Albrecht]

Do you have any world-wide sales figures for the RLS30s ?

Yes, but what has this got to do with your two original questions? You are just digressing.

My point is that the S30s always seemed to be suffering from fuel vapourisation, people in the UK complain of it where temperatures aren't 'hot' so I'm curious why Nissan didn't introuduce so simple a cure earlier. Begs the question why ?

The vented bonnet wasn't the "cure" to any fuel vapourisation issues - it was simply one of the updates to cars in a particular market and of a particular spec, and was aimed at reducing engine bay temps. I think you are presuming far too much.

I think you will find that a lot of the problems that people found with fuel vapourisation came from fuel being heated before it reached the engine bay ( heated by the exhaust and the drivetrain, due to the routing of the fuel pipes ) so your presumption that the bonnet vents were a "cure" is a bit premature.

Too mant unvented bonnets to sell ?
Wait until a new model (with potential heat problems with emissions equipment ?) is launched - this doesn't appear to hold up though as injection is a sure fire way of avoiding fuel vapourisation - at least, I've never heard of a 280ZX owner complain of it !

I don't know what to say to you really. It looks like you have already made up your mind as to what you think the bonnet vents were added for, and you are just looking for somebody to confirm it for you.

If you are really serious about getting a bit closer to the truth on matters like these, then I suggest you start seeking out and purchasing Nissan's 'Service Bulletin' pamphlets
and dealer updates from the period in question, so that you can get a glimpse of some of what was going on from the inside. It will cost you time and money, but I think it will ultimately prove far more productive than firing random questions around on a forum like this.

As for almost every single item on early and late cars - what, in your opinion where the de-merits of later cars ?

Life's too short to discuss stuff like that on here with you. Can you imagine the digressions?

 

[grolls]

Tis a bugger going Carp fishing and the net is only full of scrawny Perch.

 

[SeanDezart]

Yes, but what has this got to do with your two original questions? You are just digressing.

Ok, no starter for 10..... then.

The vented bonnet wasn't the "cure" to any fuel vapourisation issues - it was simply one of the updates to cars in a particular market and of a particular spec, and was aimed at reducing engine bay temps. I think you are presuming far too much.

I think you will find that a lot of the problems that people found with fuel vapourisation came from fuel being heated before it reached the engine bay ( heated by the exhaust and the drivetrain, due to the routing of the fuel pipes ) so your presumption that the bonnet vents were a "cure" is a bit premature.

Sorry, I don't to presume, it's perhaps my way of writing.

I don't know what to say to you really. It looks like you have already made up your mind as to what you think the bonnet vents were added for, and you are just looking for somebody to confirm it for you.

No, really I'm just surprised and curious why Nissan waited for a new model to introduce it. Nissan, like most Japanese firms always introduced improvements as and when they could insted of waiting for model year changes...didn't they ?

If you are really serious about getting a bit closer to the truth on matters like these, then I suggest you start seeking out and purchasing Nissan's 'Service Bulletin' pamphlets
and dealer updates from the period in question, so that you can get a glimpse of some of what was going on from the inside. It will cost you time and money, but I think it will ultimately prove far more productive than firing random questions around on a forum like this.

You're right but I have even less time now with two kiddies, working away from home sometimes, promoting the cars here and TRYING (in vain sometimes) to get the stories right - latest book STILL quotes the '75/76 Z as a 260.......... If France can't get their own history right......and of course actually driving my Z which is what it's all about !

Life's too short to discuss stuff like that on here with you. Can you imagine the digressions?

Yep, there's only me that's interested anyway.

 

[JakTheRuby]

Sean, this is a forum. You know better than to ask questions about the Datsun/Nissan Z series on a forum website based on said marque. Lordy. Some people should lighten up a little me'thinks! (Or at least join the club if they're gonna launch a tirade at every single comment that someone makes).

I had cocopops for breakfast this morning. I took my time and named each and every single 'pop' individually. Then my missus (who wasn't a fully paid up member of my newly built 'breakfast club') turned up and launched into an un-needed attack upon Alan, Jeff, Paul, Tiddles, Ricey, Jeff 2, Shergar, Bonnie, Doody, Paris, Rambo, He-Man, Jeff 3, Colin, Susan, Alice, Debbie, Pauline, Chelsea, Rovers, Missy, Mike, Pecker, Chevvy, Jeff 4 etc...

 

[grolls]

Sean, this is a forum. You know better than to ask questions about the Datsun/Nissan Z series on a forum website based on said marque. Lordy. Some people should lighten up a little me'thinks! (Or at least join the club if they're gonna launch a tirade at every single comment that someone makes)....

Words spoken in such wishful auspice!

 

[Albrecht]

I had cocopops for breakfast this morning. I took my time and named each and every single 'pop' individually. Then my missus (who wasn't a fully paid up member of my newly built 'breakfast club') turned up and launched into an un-needed attack upon Alan, Jeff, Paul, Tiddles, Ricey, Jeff 2, Shergar, Bonnie, Doody, Paris, Rambo, He-Man, Jeff 3, Colin, Susan, Alice, Debbie, Pauline, Chelsea, Rovers, Missy, Mike, Pecker, Chevvy, Jeff 4 etc...

That looks almost exactly how most of the posts on this forum read to me............

It may just be serendipity dog doing his mysterious work of course, but well done for summing it up all the same.






I have to keep my voice down when telling you this, but you don't know the half of what goes on between M. Dezart and my good self out of sight of this forum........

 

[twoforty]

Is it true that Albert Hofmann invented a performance version of the R200 differential?

 

[JakTheRuby]

You made me think up all those names too... Dammit!

 

[JakTheRuby]

Isn't Albert Hofmann the guy who invented LSD?

 

[grolls]

I have to keep my voice down when telling you this, but you don't know the half of what goes on between M. Dezart and my good self out of sight of this forum........

What you two do behind closed doors is your issue, each to their own....

 

[SeanDezart]

Sean, this is a forum. You know better than to ask questions about the Datsun/Nissan Z series on a forum website based on said marque. Lordy. Some people should lighten up a little me'thinks! (Or at least join the club if they're gonna launch a tirade at every single comment that someone makes).

I think The Count is refering to me alone, if there were a few more people in this club or even on this forum that expressed a tiny bit more interest in the details and truth behind these legendary cars whose histrory has been written by those least in the know, then perhaps he would smile more kindly upon the odd 'mallacca' that poses the oddly phrased question every now and then !

It's not a widely known fact but The Count is to Zs and their poorly informed owners what Mr Lecter is to FBI agents........

 

[Mr Ex]

if there were a few more people in this club or even on this forum that expressed a tiny bit more interest in the details and truth behind these legendary cars whose histrory has been written by those least in the know, then perhaps he would smile more kindly upon the odd 'mallacca' that poses the oddly phrased question every now and then !

I'm interested, I bought quite a few books in the 80's as soon as they came out & mags but as with everthing else if you don't read 'em again you forget things, you'll realise that Sean when you get a bit older.