VIN Numbers

[SeanDezart]

DJ, this is what I was referring too :

JDM Fairlady Z VIN S30 (no 240 anywhere in the name of these cars - some call them 200z as they were fitted with L20a engines with carbs)
JDM Fairlady 240Z VIN HS30 (fitted with L24 engines)
JDM Fairlady Z VIN S31 (same body/tail lights dash as RS30=Export RHD 260Z but fitted with L20e EFI engine, my Dad has one of these)

There were S30-S and S30-L for the trim level and different standard options and as you have stated these were not on the firewall.

There was also the HS30-H the factory JDM Fairlady 240Z with G-Nose and overfenders.

Then there is the PS30 the 432. I am sure someone else can let you know what the VIN is for a 432R as I would be guessing so I won't even try as I might get it wrong and add to the confussion.

Also all of the JDM were badged and sold as Nissan not Datsun as Datsun was the name use in the export markets. I recall in the 80's ads on TV promoting Nissan/Datsun then about 1 year later no more Datsun

Your contribution (2 posts against my one I notice) :

So much for 'Sean'z ' serious post'z ' claim !
Oh pudding ell,
That mean'z I wont be able to log on again DJZ 60.

Same old subject eh DJ ?

Steve, if you want it private and personal, close down the forum

 

[Albrecht]

There were S30-S and S30-L for the trim level and different standard options and as you have stated these were not on the firewall.

Sean,
You need to use the 'QUOTE' button, otherwise it looks as though you wrote all that - instead of Mike ( NZeder ). Unless your dad bought an S31 recently........

For the record ( already posted on the other thread on the other forum ):

'S30-S' model ( 'Fairlady Z' ) = 'S30' VIN prefix stamping on firewall and engine bay tag. This was the 'base', no-frills, entry-level Fairlady Z for the Japanese market. No carpet, no hubcaps, less shiny stuff and a 4-speed tranny. But could be optioned-up piece-by-piece if required.

'S30' model ( 'Fairlady Z-L' ) = This also had the 'S30' VIN prefix stamping on firewall and engine bay tag too. This was the 'Luxury' version Fairlady for the Japanese market, with all the bells and whistles, and five-speed as standard, and this too could be optioned-up as required.

You get the point? They had the SAME prefix to their VIN numbers when stamped on the car - so you have to look elsewhere for clues as to which version you are looking at. The full Factory 'Katashiki', 'Ruibetsu' and 'Shashu' were not attached to the car........

Again, as I posted elsewhere, this all becomes much more complicated in October 1971 when the L24-engined models were added to the Japanese domestic lineup, but the same logic and same structure applies.

And your car is an 'HLS30-U', even if the 'U' doesn't appear on the VIN prefix.

 

[SeanDezart]

Yeah, I aint too hot with the quote button but my Dad should have an HLS30-U automatic with air conditioning from next Monday Keep it in the family !

I have replied elsewhere too. Am I a pain ? Question (at the risk of hijacking this htrread which was going nowhere anyway) why did the JDM lineup get the 2.4 litre in '71 ? Why bother or otherwise, why not have had it right from the beginning (cheaper production and tooling) costs ? Change of engine size tax laws ?

Suppl. question, the S20 and the Z432 engine weren't directly related to the GR8 engine were they ?

 

[Albrecht]

Quoting is easy and fun! Especially for reminding Zbirdy what his opinion was 24 hours ago.

In answer to your question, Japan was changing fast at that time. In late 1969 Nissan needed to keep things relatively simple for themselves, and the taxation laws for over 2 litre engine capacity dictated that they probably would not sell all that many sports cars with the L24. At launch in late 1969, the Japanese market had a choice of FOUR models in the S30-series range - and each of those four had a range of options that could be ordered when buying the car new. Compare that with the Export market versions.
They were kind of right to make the decision to stick to two litre versions in late 1969, but by 1971 it was already clear that a market for the more expensive tax code versions could exist in Japan. Japan was becoming more affluent, and new highways were being built in a rapid expansion of the national road network. Young professionals were aspiring to luxury goods and were demanding more choice. In short, by 1971 the market had changed.
But I don't think you should read too much into all this. Most of the decisions were taken by 'bean counters' anyway.

Nissan made good advertising copy for the S20 engine by linking its heritage to the Prince GR8, but the S20 was fairly different in many respects to the GR8. The GR8 was a pure race engine, with twin distributors driven off the ends of the two camshafts. None of the componentry of the S20 was interchageable with that of the GR8 - so in truth the S20 descended from the GR8 rather than being a development of it.

 

[SeanDezart]

Four models in '69 ?

S30
S30-S
and already the PS30s ?

Plus the Roadsters !

So one can truthfully say that the GR8 and S20 were closely related - one "descended" from the other !

I thought it had been said elsewhere that it's incorrect to say that the Skyline engine went into the S30 and PS30-SB ?

 

[grolls]

well you two lost me an hour ago accept!

Quoting is easy and fun! Especially for reminding Zbirdy what his opinion was 24 hours ago.

.

 

[Albrecht]

Four models in '69 ?
S30
S30-S
and already the PS30s ?

Plus the Roadsters !

Yes, four models to choose from and 'option up' as required: S30-S, S30, PS30 and PS30-SB.

The SP/SR didn't overlap the S30-series Z to any extent in the Japanese home market.

So one can truthfully say that the GR8 and S20 were closely related - one "descended" from the other !

Don't overplay this. The GR8 was descended from the G7R, but they were hugely different.

I thought it had been said elsewhere that it's incorrect to say that the Skyline engine went into the S30 and PS30-SB ?

Watch out for typos in those VIN prefixes. You mean 'PS30' and 'PS30-SB'........

The S20 fitted to the PGC10 Skyline GT-R was effectively the same engine as the S20 fitted to the 432 and 432-R. The difference was in the oil pickup, sump layout and oil dipstick drilling - that is all.




LOL at grolls

 

[ZHead]

Quoting is easy and fun! Especially for reminding Zbirdy what his opinion was 24 hours ago .

 

[Albrecht]

Andy,
While I have your attention.........

You still need to pay me for that 4.375 LSD R200 diff that you said you would take.

Unless you are 'doing a Zbirdy' on me?

 

[Zbirdy]

ZHead, may I remind you of your post on another thread, telling us all to Shut the **** up.
Grow up ladies, the joke has worn ever so thin, and i think youll find Paul, your laughing out loud on your own mate.

 

[Ian Patmore]

Albrecht,
So we know what is happening with the S30's at the '69/early '70's, but what were things like, in terms of specific models, later in the '70's for the JDM? Obviously other parts of the world got the 260/280....was the 260 avail. for the JDM, for example?

Cheers
Ian

 

[Albrecht]

Hi Ian,

I was hoping nobody would ask about the later Japanese market models. It all gets more and more complicated.

Japan got a '260Z' for just a matter of weeks. These cars ( stamped with 'RS30' VIN prefixes ) struggled to meet Japan's super-strict emissions standards - and were not really set up very well to cope with high heat and aircon use. Dealers were reporting problems with the cars even before sales to customers, and a rash of problems led to a production stop and the recall of several hundred cars. Nissan 'cured' the problem by reverting to the L20 engine - actually taking out the L26 engines from cars already made and replacing them with L20 units, then re-stamping the VIN numbers to suit. One of the regular posters on this site has one of these interesting curiosities.... ( ask moggy ).

As always, Japan had a comparatively large range of models and variants in the Z lineup. These became increasingly complex in details and accessories ( too much to go into here ) but at least did not get some of the rather ugly crash bumpers used in the USA market.

Updated versions of the Fairlady Z and Fairlady Z-L were still available from September 1973 onwards, until the '2/2' variants were added in January 1974. At this time, Japan had a choice of SIX models of Z to choose from: Three two seaters ( S30-S, S30 and S30-A ) and three 2/2 models ( GS30-S, GS30 and GS30-A ).

September 1975 saw the introduction of the new 'NAPS' ( Nissan Anti Pollution System ) L20e engines to Japan, and the 'A' prefix added to the 'S30' VIN prefix ( making the cars 'A-S30' and 'A-GS30' models ). The lineup still had six basic models, and new accessory and trim packages were introduced.

In mid 1976, VIN prefixes were changed over to the 'S31' base with a 'C' prefix - which signalled a model update and an expansion of the lineup, with the 'Z-T' phased in. At this time five different 2-seater versions ( S31-S, S31, S31-J, S31-A and S31-AJ ) and five different 2/2 versions ( GS31-S, GS31, GS31-J, GS31-A and GS31-AJ ) were on the market. Once again, more trim packages and more accessories became standard - including electric windows, electric mirrors and swivelling interior spotlamps.....

It is an enormously complex subject, and far too difficult and time consuming to go into detail here.

Hope that overview helped a little, though?

 

[Ian Patmore]

Albrecht,
Thank you. The later JDM models looks complex,, I had to read your post a few times to get a bit of an understanding. So, did any RS30 survive in their original form (with the L26) or because of the failure to meet the strict emissions they all got changed to L20? How much did the JDM 260s, from say the uk version ( in basic terms, as I feel this is where things could get complicated) differ?

As they were developing the 260 and 280 for the non-JDM, was there any pre-production cars made, and if so do they survive?

This goes some way to explain why we only hear about fairladies/240 etc in Japan and not the 260. And my lesson for today was knowing what a S31 was, I had seen it mentioned on Classiczcar.com...now I know what it is.

I for one love hearing about the JDM and the subtle changes (worldwide) within the models, here and on the site mentioned above.


Moggy, if you read this, would you mind giving a bit more info on "one of these interesting curiosities" please?

Thanks
Ian

 

[SeanDezart]

Origin then of the L20 - unbored L24 ?

 

[SeanDezart]

And so the JDM market went effectively from an L24 to an L20e to the L28e in (respectively) 1975 and 1978 (?) ?
Z-T in mid '76 ???

 

[Albrecht]

So, did any RS30 survive in their original form (with the L26) or because of the failure to meet the strict emissions they all got changed to L20? How much did the JDM 260s, from say the uk version ( in basic terms, as I feel this is where things could get complicated) differ?

As far as I am told, no Japanese market RS30s escaped the net and kept their L26 engines. That's only anecdotal evidence, but if any did escape you'd have to wonder just how they would have passed their emissions check at their yearly 'shakken' tests, and how their owners would have put up with all the fuel vapourisation and related problems in the height of Summer. It is much more likely that they all got recalled and got their L26 taken out and an L20 put in.

You ask about similarities between the Japanese market cars and the UK-market RS30, but don't forget that the Japanese market always had more model and spec choice. You'd have to compare like-with-like to be fair, so a UK-market RS30 '260Z' should be compared against a Fairlady Z-L ( ie - top spec ) of the same manufacturing period. In which case you'd have to say that they were very similar, except for the engines. But then, the UK and Australian / NZ markets always arguably did get a very nice spec of car in comparison to some other markets with the steering wheel on the wrong side ( ahem ).

If you want to take this any further, I'd be happy to try to answer any more specific questions about the spec of the Japanese market cars - but listing them all up here would be a job of work. Would make a book on its own.

As they were developing the 260 and 280 for the non-JDM, was there any pre-production cars made, and if so do they survive?

No doubt that they did make 'pre-production' cars, but there is a bit of a grey area in what the Japanese Factories call pre-production and 'prototypes', and what we usually think that means....

Generally speaking, during that period Nissan made 'Kojyo Shisaku' ( 'Factory Prototype' ) cars first, and then went further and produced 'Seisan Shisaku' ( 'Production Prototype' ) cars after that. The 'Kojyo Shisaku' cars did not have full VIN numbers, and - reportedly - at least some of the 'Seisan Shisaku' cars did. This means that some of the 'Seisan Shisaku' cars could have made it out into the hands of the general public - at least theoretically.

But I do don't know of any, and I believe that Nissan does not have any such S30 / S31-series Z cars in its collection at Zama. We should be careful about very low body serial numbers, as we don't really know what they mean. It is certainly not correct to call any super-low body serial numbered S30 / S31-series Z a 'prototype' in the true sense of the word.

And so the JDM market went effectively from an L24 to an L20e to the L28e in (respectively) 1975 and 1978 (?) ?
Z-T in mid '76 ???

No.
The Japanese S30 / S31-series Z market started from the L20A / S20 choice and then got the L24 for a couple of years as well. They got the L26 for a matter of less than a couple of months. Then they had just the L20A for a while and then got the L20E until the S130-series debuted. At no point did the Japanese market S30 / S31-series Z range have an L28 in its lineup.

Origin then of the L20 - unbored L24 ?

HUH?

Sean, I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that you are from another planet.

The first ever Nissan 'L-Series' engine was the L20 - as seen in the Nissan H130-series 'Cedric Special Six', launched in October 1965. Forget any bullsh*t you read about the L24 being a "Bluebird L16 with two cylinders added" - the L20 six CAME FIRST. Get your mate to put that in his book.

How on earth you can think of an L24 as a bored L20, or an L20 as an "unbored L24" is beyond me. What's next? The L26 is a 'bored' L24, and the L24 is an unbored L26? How about the L20, L24 and L26 are just L28s waiting to be bored?

The L-series six was designed with a bore pitch that would accommodate much bigger bore sizes, and a crank centreline that would accommodate longer strokes. It was designed to become one of Nissan's staple engine 'modules' with a wide range of uses, and putting too much emphasis on the L24 is just shortsighted. I repeat, the L20 six came first - and even the four cylinder versions reached production status after it..........

I need a cup of tea - or something stronger - after all that

 

[SeanDezart]

"How on earth you can think of an L24 as a bored L20, or an L20 as an "unbored L24" is beyond me. What's next? The L26 is a 'bored' L24, and the L24 is an unbored L26? How about the L20, L24 and L26 are just L28s waiting to be bored?"

Count,

I've been infected by the wadge of French contempory 240Z reviews that I've just bought plus recapulative reviews (in the '80s) - and a heated discussion with two French on two different car forums over here on the subject of Goertz amongst others !

All that aside and all that I've assumed / read / heard on the L series, yes the 'add two cylinders tale', surely the L20 went on to be the L24/26/28 ? Ok, not bored but machines by the factory ! Yes, I believe that the L series was designed to accomodate a wide variety of applications, sporting/saloon/commercial and eventually be of a larger cubic capacity and yes I know the L20 came first (I miswrote what I wanted to say - that the L24 was evolved 'bored' from the L20) ! And if I over -simplified that process by sayting 'bored', forgive me !

An L20 (carbus), an L20e (electronic ignition ?, fuel injection ?) and the L20A - I have no idea what this suffix means so shoot away (I feel like a coconut in a fairground !

 

[Arkwright]

"I feel like a coconut in a fairground"

Oh please somebody - a wide open door - dip your bread in!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(sorry Sean )

 

[SeanDezart]

Coconut bread ? I thought it was eggy bread up your way !!!!!