Which bodyshell of a Z is the best for Race?

Phantom said:
Then again - at least there has been some spirited discussion - and that's also what it's all about. I just wonder if the original question really got answered?:conf2:
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Yes, this is a 'forum' after all. :)

I think the nature of the original question was a little bit open-ended? 'Speedshot' needs to decide what race series and what race class he wants to compete in ( I'd look at the potential competition first ) and then decide what model would be an appropriate, eligible and race legal base to start with.
 
Hello
A very interesting discussion with a lot of helpful information included. Thank you all. In the end I have found most of my state of knowledge confirmed. The 2+2 will not be a question for me. I know about the better performance in roadability, but my love is focused to the shape of the 2-seater´s Z. Above all, I don´t know about a FIA homologated 2+2. It is not mentioned in the homologation papers nor have I knowledge about a 2+2 which competed in a FIA race. Do somebody have other knowledges?
To solve the original question about the explicit differences in construction of the bodyworks, I will examine a 1977 280 and a 1971 240 shell for comparison in April. Combined with your helpful advices I will come surely to a conclusion.:bow:

[Original posted by PHANTOM: It (the´73 240 shell) is probably 300 lbs lighter than the '280' shell]
:confused: 300lbs is a lot of metal, if you were really speaking from the single bodywork. The road equipped 280 Z was app. 500 lbs heavier than a 240. And this with all the additional environmental systems, the injection and ugly big bumpers.
 
Sirs,
I have to correct a former made statement of mine.:I intend to compete in Historic Class of the FIA, according Apendix H (FIA). For example the ADAC Classic Trophy.:eek:
The right statement is:
It is Appendix K and the ADAC Youngtimer Trophy.

I beg your pardon.
 
speedshot said:
300lbs is a lot of metal, if you were really speaking from the single bodywork. The road equipped 280 Z was app. 500 lbs heavier than a 240. And this with all the additional environmental systems, the injection and ugly big bumpers.
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And so you use just the shell and lighten it anyway :)
 
SeanDezart said:
And so you use just the shell and lighten it anyway :)
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In the appendix K (FIA) it is not allowed to lighten the shell, except homologated changes like doors and tailgate made from GRP. You may only ad material to get more stiffness.
 
If you took a 280Z shell and lightened it in a manner that it looked no different to that of a 240 shell (even a JDM one) - who would know the difference ?
 
Would you Rob ? Really ?

A stripped down 280Z shell, chassis number swapped over from a dead 240 and rebuilt into a competition car - you could still tell the difference (as a scrutineer who rarely sees Zs) ?
 
zedhead260 said:
And that's a lot of investment building an incorrect car on the hope that no one will notice.
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And people (and companies) have spent much, much more without a thought...........! It happens all the time !
 
SeanDezart said:
Would you Rob ? Really ?
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Yes I would, it's easy.

Height of rear turretts inside the luggage area.

Door hinges - the shape where they fix to the body and the shape of the slam panel.

There's loads more tell tale signs, but they are the two that are realistically impossible to change.
 
zedhead260 said:
Yes I would, it's easy.

Height of rear turretts inside the luggage area.

Door hinges - the shape where they fix to the body and the shape of the slam panel.

There's loads more tell tale signs, but they are the two that are realistically impossible to change.
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Be realistic Rob - there is no scrutineer who's going to measure all that and memorise shapes and compare 'em to what ?

I know that there are dedicated Z fans that can - that aint my point !
 
It isn't usually the scrutineer that spots it. It's the other 240Z owner / driver that is losing and complains after he spots the difference.
 
Good point - accepted-ish !

But again, how many HSCC racers would be able to tell which were ex-USA cars without the owner letting 'em get really close ? Some attn to detail and an HLS can look just like an HS :)
 
Wouldn't matter if it was a 280Z either as even 280ZXs can run in it now I believe - but again, that wasn't the point !
 
Generally, it isn´t useful to lighten a 280 Z shell in a way, that even a scrutineer without perfect knowledges of the differences won´t recognize this. The structurell important differences are easy to discern and above of all these aereas are the important ones for creating the strengthning difference of a 240 to an 280 shell. All the not important parts, which are possible to lighten without weakening the structure are existing at the 240, too. So, there is less sense lightning a 280 shell to the weight of a 240. then better use a 240 from the beginning.
Also we have to take in account, that it is not allowed by the policy of the FIA to use the rollcage for strengthening the shell as it was usual and legal in the SCCA. By the way. Due to this the design of the front dome bars shown at the red ralley car in the thread "New" Group 4 Racer is only half the rental fee. Best would be to connect this point inside the cabine to the connection point of the rocker panel - rear wheel house.
Even yet I couldn´t understand were the mentioned 300 lbs Phantom was speaking about, are taken in. Sure the doors are conspicious heavier parts. But 300 lbs more weight for the 280 shell, when the complete 280 Z was 500 lbs heavier than a 73 240 Z at all???
 
SeanDezart said:
If you took a 280Z shell and lightened it in a manner that it looked no different to that of a 240 shell (even a JDM one) - who would know the difference ?
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I WOULD
 
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