Which bodyshell of a Z is the best for Race?

S

speedshot

Active Forum User
The bodywork of the 240 and the 280 Z are different in a few details. I have restored a 280 Z and seen a couple of 240s, but I do not know the detailed construction of a 240 bodyshell. Sure, I know about the reengineered rear axle suspension in 1972.
For me the 240 bodywork seems to be lighter, whereas the 280 may be more stronger (specifically at the rear).
Can somebody give some advices. What are the differences? What are the difference in weight of the bodyshell? Generally, what is the better basis for building a Z racecar?
In my oppinion it is interesting that the types of Z used for race in the SCCA changed in the course of the changing modelyears. Or was this due to regulations of the SCCA?
 
The 'best' bodyshell to choose is the one that complies with the regulations laid down by the organisers of the race series that you intend to race in.
 
Count,

I have a 1970 shell and that of a 1975 280Z - are you referring to age related regulations ?
 
Albrecht said:
The 'best' bodyshell to choose is the one that complies with the regulations laid down by the organisers of the race series that you intend to race in.
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For me the main question is to create the best basis. (I don´t have the bodyshell yet.) Second I will built the car with all it´s necessary accessories to the rules the policy is asking for. For instance the historic group 4 is divided in cars from 1972 to 1975 and a extra class of 1976 cars. Why not take a 1973 bodyshell and prepare the car to the rules of appendix J from 1976? The Le Mans car of 1976 was also announced as a car of an earlier construction year but with all the modifications necessary for group 4 of 1976.

The question I am posing to myself is which was the best bodyshell for racing? What are the modifications made at the 280 compared to the 240 Z
 
Which bodyshell is "best" will depend on exactly what you want to use it for. This is a subjective question.

The later bodyshells are heavier - but also stiffer. There are hundreds of minor detail differences between the earliest and the latest production S30/S31-series bodyshells, and it is almost impossible to list them here.

As I tried to explain, the most important thing is to use a bodyshell that you know will pass initial scrutineering in the categories and races that you intend to enter. There is no point building a car out of a 1978 bodyshell if the cut-off date for eligibility is 1976 or 1977.

I would have thought that the 1973 bodyshell you mentioned would be the best choice, as long as it is structurally sound - especially as you have been discussing Group 4 specifications here.
 
Joris,

I was referring to what shells might best be used for certain regulations. But I think the Count has explained it better.
I said that I have a 1970 shell and a 1975 280Z shell (lhd) ......and I know of perhaps 3 other 260Z shells in the UK (rhd) !

Ok, sales over and getting serious, which homologated parts do you want to use because I think (Count ?) that some depend upon which year chassis is used.
 
Summarizing, I have to study first all possible parts used in group 4 and their classification depending on the year of use. Second to chose the dedicating chassis.
Both I will asses to the use, more hill climb, mainly track or some ralleying on asphalt. After that it will be time to contact a scrutineer for to get the right decision which is able to become legitimized.
So, where can I get a catalogue or a copy of the Nissan Sports Option Parts from 1970 up to 1978?
 
speedshot said:
So, where can I get a catalogue or a copy of the Nissan Sports Option Parts from 1970 up to 1978?
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speedshot,
There were a lot of different Sports Options catalogues / lists for the S30/S31-series Z cars.

Once you have decided what base car you will use and what category / regulations you want to race in, contact me and I will send you some photocopies of the appropriate lists.
 
But we still don't know what chamionship you intend to race in, and therefore what regs and weights apply. Surely you must decide this first before you build the car?
 
racer said:
But we still don't know what chamionship you intend to race in, and therefore what regs and weights apply. Surely you must decide this first before you build the car?[/QUOTE
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racer said:
]
Hallo Racer,
thank you very much for your gentle offer.
I intend to compete in Historic Class of the FIA, according Apendix H (FIA). For example the ADAC Classic Trophy.
The class will be "Competition Grand Touring Cars (GTS)";
Possible periods (Appendix H) are
G2 1.1.1970 - 31.12.1971, according to Appendix J from 1971, Class max. 2.5 liter, minimum weight is 880 kg;
H1 1.1.1972 - 31.12.1975, acc. App. J from 1975;
H2 1.1. 1976 - 31.12.1976, acc. App. J from 1976;
I 1.1.1977 - 31.12.1982; acc App. J 1981.
The period I decide to choose is depending on the available parts, corresponding to the different Appendix J. My favoured periods are H1, H2, I were I can use the 2.8 liter engine, which was homologated from 7/75 on.
The class is up to 3.0 liter. so the minimum. weight is 945 kg.
In point 3.1 of App. H is written: " A car will be grade to a period on the ground of it´s specifikation (parts corresponding to the particular App. J) not on the ground of the construction year."
Any more questions or ideas? You are wellcome.

Let me know how you want to send the copies. Possibly I´ll send you the money for shipping in advance. Or send an personal message if you need a fax number.
Thanks.
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The S30 had three body shell designs from 1970 through 1978.

The early 240, 1970 until 1972, was the first and it was stiffened up for 1972 & 1973. Part way through 1974 the "280 style" body shell was incorporated that led to an even stronger and stiffer structure. Each change resulted in a stiffer AND heavier shell. If you are thinking of running in a historic racing class then I'm asuming you'll be running a normally aspirated straight 6 rather than a turbocharged 6 or a V8. If that truly is the case then the 1973 shell would be my shell of choice. It is probably 300 lbs lighter than the '280' shell and, although not as stiff, it doesn't have to handle higher values of torque. It also is already set up for the R180 differential vs. the R200 so there is additional weight savings there.
When prepping the car pay particular attention to the C pillar above the quater panel window. There is a joint there that will fail over time if subjected to a lot of stress from either excessive engine torque or serious track competition resulting from a very stiff suspension. If a rollbar is part of the build equation then I'd attach tabs from the roll bar to the roof structure to tie it in to the fenderwell/shock tower area. That will significantly increse the strength of the shell in that area.
 
Phantom said:
The S30 had three body shell designs from 1970 through 1978.
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A lot more than three. But then you are probably only talking about the USA / North American market, I presume?
 
Correct - my experience is based primarily on the US spec vehicles.
Also, I was referring only to the coupe from 1970-1978. The 2+2 model first introduced in the US in 1974 went through the latter two renditions which makes the US 260Z (1974 only) production numbers pretty small if broken down by body type. The first part of the year it had the same shell as the 72-73 240Z and the latter part of the production run that year it had the 280Z style shell.
I guess, technically speaking, there also was a slight change in the shell late in 1977 that affected the rear deck area but that had little to do with the structural integrity of the vehicle or its weight. With all that figured in, including the 2+2, I guess that would make about 7 different shells? Unless, however, the 2+2 was sold in Europe n 1973 that still makes his '73 coupe probably the best choice.
While I'm on this kick, though - and to further stir the pot - it was discovered that the 2+2 version of the Z32 was the better competition platform because of it's longer wheel base. It has also been observed that that may also be the case in comparing the 350Z and G35. I wonder if the early 2+2 would out-handle the coupe enough to overcome the weight disadvantage? Probably not, since the track/wheelbase of the S30 is less 'square' than the Z32 or Z33.
 
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Last I heard - the coupes in the JDM have been 'stretched'. I know the nose was lengthened and I believe the wheel base was adjusted too.
 
Phantom said:
I know the nose was lengthened and I believe the wheel base was adjusted too.
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No altered wheelbases in the S30-series.

I was talking about the 'S30-S', 'S30-SF', 'S30-SF', 'S30-SN', 'S30-SFN', 'S30-SAN', 'S30', 'S30-C', 'S30-N', S30-CN', 'S30-A', 'S30-AN', 'PS30', 'PS30-SD', PS30-SB' etc etc.....

.....and that's not including the HS30-series either.

The above were all technically different bodyshells. Take the Japanese-market cars into account and everything becomes an awful lot more complicated.

But to answer the question in its purest ( idealistic ) form - perhaps the 'best' bodyshells for motorsport purposes were the ones that the Factory built expressly for racing and rallying. First of these was the 'PZR' ( PS30-SB ) - the Fairlady Z432-R. The others were stamped as 'HS30' / 'HLS30' and 'RS30' / 'RLS30', but were quite different to standard production bodyshells bearing those VIN prefixes.
 
That I knew - I was referring to the current Z33's. :350Za2:
On the S30's :S30: I am aware of many very limited production models and, if that is the goal, then by all means go find a rare one. I was attempting to limit to commonly available -straight from your friendly Datsun/Nissan dealer garden variety types. At what point do you say a right hand drive shell is different enough from a left hand drive to have structural integrity be an issue - or the addition of a g nose or zg flares or some other relatively cosmetic issue that Nissan decided was worth a model designation change? Let's go back to the original basic question that started this thread and not get wound in another solar system.:confused:
Then again - at least there has been some spirited discussion - and that's also what it's all about. I just wonder if the original question really got answered?:conf2:
 
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