Water leak - HELP!

R

RIDDLER

Well-Known Forum User
Posted this at the end of a long thread and unusually, not had any useful responses - so posting again as I feel it may have got lost and a lot of people may not have seen it:

At the risk of boring everyone to death with my water leak again . . . I need your brain power once more on this fellow members!
I have now established beyond doubt the point at which the water is entering the car - it is between the driver's door and the end of the dashboard.
As the pictures show, I took three wads of pale blue absorbent paper and wedged them next to the end of the dashboard alongside the door, just prior to the latest downpour.
As you can see, the top one (near the windscreen) remained dry so water is not getting in there - not surprising as I have had a new rubber in the screen and had it resealed.
The bottom one, down near the hinge, also stayed dry.
The middle wad, opposite the banana seal got sodden wet - it looks darker blue on the picture.
This would maybe suggest the banana seal is not doing its job - but it is a new seal from Mr Feeney, and following his advice, I secured it to the door with adhesive so water could not get underneath it.
I have also replaced the main door seal (courtesy of Fourways) and even the top rubber seal which inserts into the chrome top of the door (thanks Pmac).
I now do not know how to solve this irritating problem.
Looking at the pictures can anyone out there work it out and put me out of my misery?
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From the picture Rob, it's looks like the banana seal is ok, but I notice that there is water up the inside of the frame the wrong side of the silver runner. I would guess this is simply from rain getting above the top of the door and travelling down the door seal and eventually finding a gap where your wet cloth is?

Mine does exactly the same you know? I get water getting in from the same place. I also had water getting in from behind the firewall from under the scuttle panel. That was cured (I hope) from some silicon sealant as there it was gathering in the footwell and it worried me greatly.

I think somehow water is gonna get in somewhere despite your best efforts and whatever you do to try and stop it. I know you have no choice than to keep it outside (as I had done for a number of years), but my best suggestion is a car cover. This will fix your problem, although I realise it will be a ball ache if you drive it every day, but you may be just fighting a losing battle?

I used the below. I honestly think for the price it is excellent. It kept every drop of rain off the car and allowed the breeze to pass through to stop too much moisture being trapped underneath. It even performed under the snow.

http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/..._productId_895675_langId_-1_categoryId_165611

I know its not the help you wanted, but it's what I did.
 
I would check the door seal gap by running a piece of paper between the door seal and the door when closed to make sure you have a good fit
 
Is the door opening metal flange running true and flat under the rubber seal gripping bit in the wet area as ive noticed on some cars they can be rippled and distorted and even the flange spread apart(some gentle persuasion with a hammer and piece of hardwood or protective jaw mole grips to move the flange outwards can usefully close up minor gaps and bring the seals closer to the door,if that is the problem.(might also help adding sealing caulk to the inside of the seal gripping section when refitting door opening seal).You can also use some thin string in between the door and frame seals in suspect areas and close the door on it and pull through to see which areas have little or no drag.As usual advising through a photo is a shot in the dark.
 
bigblock said:
Is the door opening metal flange running true and flat under the rubber seal gripping bit in the wet area as ive noticed on some cars they can be rippled and distorted and even the flange spread apart.
Click to expand...

What do you mean by the door opening metal flange? Can you explain. Are you referring to the metal edge which you push the rubber door seal onto?
Thanks for the rest of your advice - really appreciate it - will try the string/paper trick (thanks also Moggy for that suggestion).
 
Dale said:
From the picture Rob, it's looks like the banana seal is ok, but I notice that there is water up the inside of the frame the wrong side of the silver runner. I would guess this is simply from rain getting above the top of the door and travelling down the door seal and eventually finding a gap where your wet cloth is?

Mine does exactly the same you know? I get water getting in from the same place. I also had water getting in from behind the firewall from under the scuttle panel. That was cured (I hope) from some silicon sealant as there it was gathering in the footwell and it worried me greatly.

I think somehow water is gonna get in somewhere despite your best efforts and whatever you do to try and stop it. I know you have no choice than to keep it outside (as I had done for a number of years), but my best suggestion is a car cover. This will fix your problem, although I realise it will be a ball ache if you drive it every day, but you may be just fighting a losing battle?

I used the below. I honestly think for the price it is excellent. It kept every drop of rain off the car and allowed the breeze to pass through to stop too much moisture being trapped underneath. It even performed under the snow.

http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/..._productId_895675_langId_-1_categoryId_165611

I know its not the help you wanted, but it's what I did.
Click to expand...

Thanks Dale for taking the time to respond with that. May try the cover you suggest. I do use the car a lot - but through the winter it is mostly on the drive Mon-Thurs so may try covering it those days. What I really want to do is solve it though - it must be getting in SOMEWHERE and if it is getting in, I should be able to stop it.
 
yes,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,was just using my guestimate terminology i build all my engines that way to.
 
Ok something sensible.

Where the scuttle butts to the bulk head there are metal tungs that fit into holes in the bulkhead. They have plastic cups inserted into them, they only push in and could let water in if not sealed properly.
 
MaximG said:
Ok something sensible.

Where the scuttle butts to the bulk head there are metal tungs that fit into holes in the bulkhead. They have plastic cups inserted into them, they only push in and could let water in if not sealed properly.
Click to expand...

Yes I know the things you mean. How best to seal them? Just squirt sealant into the hole after the scuttle is inserted?
 
The plastic cups need sealing where they fit into the bulk head. The metal tung from the scuttle just slots in. As to what's best to use I need to figure that out myself. I used dumdum before but not the best thing to use as it makes rather a mess.
 
MaximG said:
The plastic cups need sealing where they fit into the bulk head. The metal tung from the scuttle just slots in. As to what's best to use I need to figure that out myself. I used dumdum before but not the best thing to use as it makes rather a mess.
Click to expand...

Got some grey seam-sealer - that may do it? Otherwise just one of those bathroom shower-basin sealers?
 
Yep either of the what you suggest will probably be ok, you won't need to use that much.
 
What I really want to do is solve it though - it must be getting in SOMEWHERE and if it is getting in, I should be able to stop it.
Click to expand...

You have already said where its getting in .....................
The middle wad, opposite the banana seal got sodden wet - it looks darker blue on the picture.
Click to expand...
Then you make a classic "non seqitur" by saying................
This would maybe suggest the banana seal is not doing its job - but it is a new seal from Mr Feeney, and following his advice, I secured it to the door with adhesive so water could not get underneath it.
Click to expand...

So lets stick to the facts without jumping to wrong conclusions .
Fact one. Water is entering the car.
Fact two . All rubber seals have been replaced. we hope that all these seals are fit for purpose and are good quality items correctly supplied for your car. so for the moment we have to assume that is the case.
Fact three. Water is still entering the car.
So the logical conclusion is that the gap you are asking the seals to seal is larger than they can seal.
The next (logical) step in the elimination process is to bring that gap to the tolerance that allows the seals to seal.
So I will award the "dunce of the day" prize to the first person who asks how do you do that.!!!

I think somehow water is gonna get in somewhere despite your best efforts and whatever you do to try and stop it.
Click to expand...

Dale thats just silly and defeatist . We would have lost WW2 if Barnes Wallis and General Montgomery had adopted that approach.

Both Bigblock and Moggy have alrady alluded to the answer in their posts
 
pmac said:
So lets stick to the facts without jumping to wrong conclusions .
Fact one. Water is entering the car.
Fact two . All rubber seals have been replaced. we hope that all these seals are fit for purpose and are good quality items correctly supplied for your car. so for the moment we have to assume that is the case.
Fact three. Water is still entering the car.
So the logical conclusion is that the gap you are asking the seals to seal is larger than they can seal.
The next (logical) step in the elimination process is to bring that gap to the tolerance that allows the seals to seal.
So I will award the "dunce of the day" prize to the first person who asks how do you do that.!!!
Click to expand...

Kirk here - thanks for your logic Mr Spock!
So, assuming that by using the paper/string trick I identify a too-large gap between the seals, and further assuming I am at dunce level when it comes to solving practical problems such as this (I claim the prize), how do you suggest I adjust the seals to make them fit better? Is it a case, as has been suggested by Bigblock, of bending the metal edge out and/or straightening it before pushing the seal over it?
 
Being a complete numperty on all things mechanical first thing I would try or in my case get someone else to try is to see what the door gaps are like and if bad or unaligned or unequall adjust them
 
Good point on door misalignment if he can play with the striker plate and associated parts along with the door hinges without spoiling the lines from the outside.Id try that first riddle if a seal gap exists.I had mistakenly assumed any issue with possible misalignment had been addressed.
 
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