Wyn
Club Member
-
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new on e-bay
- Thread starter Leeski26
- Start date
Albrecht
Well-Known Forum User
I thought I'd wait until today before answering this to see if I still felt the same way. So I waited and - yes - I still feel the same way. Here's my answer:
Let's not beat around the bush here. You were selling a car via an ebay classified ad using what is ( presumably? ) your business account and name of sjdmotorservices. You have a VW Karmann Ghia and a Ford Fiesta for sale on ebay under the same ebay account. You're a trader.
The classified ad ( it's still viewable, even though you've withdrawn the car from sale ) stated that the car was "all original except the paintwork", which is - as has been established - clearly not the case.
Just looking at the photos, some of us were easily able to deduce that all was not as it seemed, and sure enough it seems that we were right. The car has had some kind of incident / mishap in the past that has necessitated a rear quarter replacement with a later panel - something that you were obviously unaware of despite having owned the car for quite some time. I'd say that the comments and observations about the car were COMPLETELY justified and vindicated.
And yet only your third post on the forum came with a personal insult? A personal insult to somebody who was able to detect something that has a great impact on the car's value and desirability just from a few photos. You then go on to whine about people "picking holes" in the car at the same time as asking for somebody to go and inspect the car. Bizarre.
And then:
spannerboy said:
I'd call myself a "true Z fan", yes. But I'm not going to make a trip to visit a car being sold by a trader on the offchance that it will help some ( as yet unknown ) punter to make a decision. But even if I did, how do you square your complaints about "needy look at me" people and "....like the anoraks you are, to be fair your lower in my opinions thang train spotters at the moment..." with expecting somebody to come and appraise the car accurately? Where is this 'appraisal' going to be published anyway? You can't have it both ways. Perhaps you also expect the person who will come to appraise your car to know as little about it as you obviously do, and to lavish it with praise whilst ignoring any value-affecting details that can already be seen from bad photos?
Albrecht said:
Do you still feel condescended to? Perhaps you need to go back and re-read the thread, where your very first direct response to me was to call me "anal". And Mogadon? I'd say that this thread has woken you up to some details about your car that you were blissfully asleep to. So much so that you have now withdrawn it from sale. Some Mogadon, that.
spannerboy
Active Forum User
I made no bones about being in the trade,yes I do have other cars for sale,2 of which I have owned for a year,the fiesta was just a flipper,my point is you were all just pulling it apart without praising it,I buy and sell to fund my hobby.
My one and only point is,your said objective to appraise for prospective purchasers,I have given you every opportunity to do this in the flesh,but instead you choose to sit and pick fault with it from the comfort of your armchair.
I would gain nothing from a fair appraisal,the future buyer would.
I withdrew it from sale as I intend to keep it for the time being.
spannerboy
Active Forum User
And a s footnote ,I openly declared myself in the trade,but as you quote me as a trader,does that make me fair game? this is the first time I have advertised it and owned it for over a year.
spannerboy
Active Forum User
Could I respectfully request you lock this thread as it is no longer for sale please.
Albrecht
Well-Known Forum User
My point about you being a trader is that it comes with certain responsibilities with regard to selling things.
It also blurs the lines about how far you can claim to be an 'enthusiast' on a make/marque forum. I have no doubt you are indeed an enthusiast, but you can't wear both hats at the same time. When you are selling a car as a trader you will be treated as a trader, and rightly so.
The cars usually speak for themselves in the end. They are what they are. Our task as enthusiasts is to understand what they are saying to us. Some of the facts about your car were missed by you and spotted by some of us. You are now - hopefully - better informed about it and can point out the details to any prospective future purchasers. You are now better equipped to sell it properly and any future purchaser will be better informed before buying it. In my opinion this is all to the good for both sides.
Some of the good points about the car were pointed out, but you seem to have overlooked that. Naturally glaring anomalies like a 1970 production car with quarter vent emblems ring alarm bells, and will be the focus of attention until the anomaly is explained and cause understood. We did that, did we not? The car still has all its good points, but the value / asking price might need to be re-evaluated in light of the new information.
The reason such anomalies cause concern amongst ( some of... ) us is that, in the past, and on this very forum, cars have been sold and bought and have turned out to be both not what the seller thought they were and not what the buyer thought they were. At least one of the people participating in this thread was on the receiving end of bad news after posting photos of a recently purchased car on this forum. He was able to uncover the truth about his car by responding to EXACTLY the type of queries / detail spots that you have taken such offence to on this thread.
Thankfully he was able to return the car to the seller and he got redress. He kept his head and didn't take offence, has now got a different car ( one where the chassis number is the one that the factory gave to it... ) and is now what I would call an arch enthusiast who has an open mind, always asks the right questions and has the right answers, and is an asset to the early Z owning community. Happy endings. Many of us have been on similar voyages of discovery, and have run aground on similar rocks and reefs. That's why we know what questions to ask.....
In that particular situation all the "welcome to the club" and "great car!" comments were not as important as some searching and inquisitive questions that needed to be asked. I don't remember him calling anyone "anal" or complaining about "trainspotters" and "anoraks" in response.
It also blurs the lines about how far you can claim to be an 'enthusiast' on a make/marque forum. I have no doubt you are indeed an enthusiast, but you can't wear both hats at the same time. When you are selling a car as a trader you will be treated as a trader, and rightly so.
The cars usually speak for themselves in the end. They are what they are. Our task as enthusiasts is to understand what they are saying to us. Some of the facts about your car were missed by you and spotted by some of us. You are now - hopefully - better informed about it and can point out the details to any prospective future purchasers. You are now better equipped to sell it properly and any future purchaser will be better informed before buying it. In my opinion this is all to the good for both sides.
Some of the good points about the car were pointed out, but you seem to have overlooked that. Naturally glaring anomalies like a 1970 production car with quarter vent emblems ring alarm bells, and will be the focus of attention until the anomaly is explained and cause understood. We did that, did we not? The car still has all its good points, but the value / asking price might need to be re-evaluated in light of the new information.
The reason such anomalies cause concern amongst ( some of... ) us is that, in the past, and on this very forum, cars have been sold and bought and have turned out to be both not what the seller thought they were and not what the buyer thought they were. At least one of the people participating in this thread was on the receiving end of bad news after posting photos of a recently purchased car on this forum. He was able to uncover the truth about his car by responding to EXACTLY the type of queries / detail spots that you have taken such offence to on this thread.
Thankfully he was able to return the car to the seller and he got redress. He kept his head and didn't take offence, has now got a different car ( one where the chassis number is the one that the factory gave to it... ) and is now what I would call an arch enthusiast who has an open mind, always asks the right questions and has the right answers, and is an asset to the early Z owning community. Happy endings. Many of us have been on similar voyages of discovery, and have run aground on similar rocks and reefs. That's why we know what questions to ask.....
In that particular situation all the "welcome to the club" and "great car!" comments were not as important as some searching and inquisitive questions that needed to be asked. I don't remember him calling anyone "anal" or complaining about "trainspotters" and "anoraks" in response.
Leeski26
Club Member
As the starter of this thread i have been following it with real interest. I started this thread because i wanted to gauge the first impressions people had of the car. As someone who is actively looking to buy a z'ed but with only limited knowledge and mechanical skills i find the insights of the people on this forum to be very helpful, and to be honest the impression i got from the posts about this car were very positive, yes there were some issues which were pointed out (which i had not and probably would never had noticed on my own) but i got the impression it was more out of curiosity than criticizing. In fact the overall positive reaction had convinced me it may be worth inquiring about it soon ( i am not very decisive and it takes awhile for me convince myself to do anything that costs alot of money), sadly no longer an option.
What i cannot understand is why it ended up with personal insults (anal, anorak, TRAINSPOTTER
), is there any need for that?
Anyway another car may have presented itself as an option and i am going to see what happens with that
What i cannot understand is why it ended up with personal insults (anal, anorak, TRAINSPOTTER
), is there any need for that? Anyway another car may have presented itself as an option and i am going to see what happens with that
Alphabettispaghetti
Club Member
As the starter of this thread i have been following it with real interest. I started this thread because i wanted to gauge the first impressions people had of the car. As someone who is actively looking to buy a z'ed but with only limited knowledge and mechanical skills i find the insights of the people on this forum to be very helpful, and to be honest the impression i got from the posts about this car were very positive, yes there were some issues which were pointed out (which i had not and probably would never had noticed on my own) but i got the impression it was more out of curiosity than criticizing. In fact the overall positive reaction had convinced me it may be worth inquiring about it soon ( i am not very decisive and it takes awhile for me convince myself to do anything that costs alot of money), sadly no longer an option.
What i cannot understand is why it ended up with personal insults (anal, anorak, TRAINSPOTTER
Anyway another car may have presented itself as an option and i am going to see what happens with that
Good to see the thread has been useful
Wyn
Club Member
Let's be honest, you can't compare insults to facts :lol:
Albrecht
Well-Known Forum User
As the starter of this thread i have been following it with real interest. I started this thread because i wanted to gauge the first impressions people had of the car. As someone who is actively looking to buy a z'ed but with only limited knowledge and mechanical skills i find the insights of the people on this forum to be very helpful, and to be honest the impression i got from the posts about this car were very positive, yes there were some issues which were pointed out (which i had not and probably would never had noticed on my own) but i got the impression it was more out of curiosity than criticizing. In fact the overall positive reaction had convinced me it may be worth inquiring about it soon ( i am not very decisive and it takes awhile for me convince myself to do anything that costs alot of money), sadly no longer an option.
What i cannot understand is why it ended up with personal insults (anal, anorak, TRAINSPOTTER
Anyway another car may have presented itself as an option and i am going to see what happens with that
Thanks for coming back and adding that, it is much appreciated. I'm glad you were able to see the wood through the trees.
If you think we can help to answer any question you might have regarding particular cars for sale - or just any general questions - then please don't hesitate to ask.
By all means send a PM if you think the answer might prejudice a sale or upset a thin--skinned trader, or any of the more delicate members of this forum
Wishing you the very best of luck with your quest.
Alphabettispaghetti
Club Member
Leeski26
Club Member
I work on the railway (NOT a trainspotter) and find that a horrendous insult to be called one.
The Trainspotters i meet in doing my work are some of the most ridiculous people i have ever met, some are down right suicidal (standing on the track in front of an approaching train to get a photo
).So i am not keen when someone calls someone else a trainspotter in regard to something that is not trainspotting.
Does any of that make any sense.
I may not be getting my point across very well
Leeski26
Club Member
Thanks for coming back and adding that, it is much appreciated. I'm glad you were able to see the wood through the trees.
If you think we can help to answer any question you might have regarding particular cars for sale - or just any general questions - then please don't hesitate to ask.
By all means send a PM if you think the answer might prejudice a sale or upset a thin--skinned trader, or any of the more delicate members of this forum
Wishing you the very best of luck with your quest.
Thanks Albrecht, but you may regret saying that if i start bombarding you with questions in the near future
I think this was a good Thread and rather than put people off joining the Club I hope it has encouraged them.
The car in question was a good car (as we all said without exception). Slightly overpriced but he was open to negotiation.
Why do folks get so aggressive on the internet?
The car in question was a good car (as we all said without exception). Slightly overpriced but he was open to negotiation.
Why do folks get so aggressive on the internet?
Albrecht
Well-Known Forum User
This car has popped up again with a new owner:
http://retrorides.proboards.com/thr...-project?page=1&scrollTo=2002578#.VEy_asmGiSo
I will be interested to hear if the buyer got the full SP on the car from the seller.
http://retrorides.proboards.com/thr...-project?page=1&scrollTo=2002578#.VEy_asmGiSo
I will be interested to hear if the buyer got the full SP on the car from the seller.
Dale
Club Member
It could be quite upsetting for a new and excited owner reading your comments. Talk of floor damage and jigs is a bit of an assumption regardless of the known panel swap.
It may simply be some light (non structural) damage earlier on in its life that the owner decided rather than have a bit of filler applied to the car they'd get the insurance company to stump up on a brand new bit of metal?
Besides, it'll be a hell of a lot stronger and more solid than mine and many other UK cars.
It may simply be some light (non structural) damage earlier on in its life that the owner decided rather than have a bit of filler applied to the car they'd get the insurance company to stump up on a brand new bit of metal?
Besides, it'll be a hell of a lot stronger and more solid than mine and many other UK cars.
Figure i might as well pop up and reply.
Simon was a top bloke that mentioned there was likely a previous accident repair on the panel. Nothing about how it was a different year etc etc but frankly that doesn't really bother me at all. I've only learned about the year differences from this thread. The paintwork was terrible and again clearly mentioned to me on the phone before flying down.
I wanted a clean straight car and to my knowledge that's what I was sold by Simon and what's currently sitting in the garage waiting for a winter re-fresh
I'm not one for keeping things original which you'll see from the plans and maybe won't go well with the purists.
The internet's a funny ole place where opinions get thrown around pretty easily. I'm VERY glad I didn't see this thread before buying the car.
Simon was a top bloke that mentioned there was likely a previous accident repair on the panel. Nothing about how it was a different year etc etc but frankly that doesn't really bother me at all. I've only learned about the year differences from this thread. The paintwork was terrible and again clearly mentioned to me on the phone before flying down.
I wanted a clean straight car and to my knowledge that's what I was sold by Simon and what's currently sitting in the garage waiting for a winter re-fresh
I'm not one for keeping things original which you'll see from the plans and maybe won't go well with the purists.
The internet's a funny ole place where opinions get thrown around pretty easily. I'm VERY glad I didn't see this thread before buying the car.
Hi Monsween (?) I'm sure it will make a great car.
Please don't be afraid to post-up on here, you may get some 'stick' we all do but you'll also learn a lot.
Please don't be afraid to post-up on here, you may get some 'stick' we all do but you'll also learn a lot.