Goodbye - and thanks for all the fish !

[bluejon]

Very proud to be Scottish and voted No in the independence referendum, very proud to be British and voted to leave the EU.

I hope there are a lot more like you Al. Frankly I can't understand this existential Scottish thing that sees people want to leave a long-lived world class union as part of an economic powerhouse, in order to go it alone in a short-lived EUnion that is economically weak, in decline as a 'thing' and now even more uncertain about its future. It may well be that Brexit has in fact pulled the rug out from under any chance of Scotland leaving the Union. Time will tell ... we are watching this history being written now on a daily basis ..

 

[status]

The thing is us English wasn't asked if we want to keep the Scottish when they had the vote last year,is that fair,now it seems they are kicking up a fuss because some of em didn't get their own way,it's called democracy,millions died so we have it so put up or shut up because the simple thing is if the jocks came out of the U.K. They would suffer massive job losses,fact,you wouldn't have a British passport,I'm proud to be English cos the only British thing about me is my passport which enables me to travel the world and if you are proud to be Scottish then good on yer but it can't be that bad in England because for over 50 years people have wanted to come here,percentage wise I don't see people rushing to France ,Italy ,Germany to make a new life,they normally have a holiday home there

 

[SeanDezart]

Funny but when i awoke this morning there was a big yellow ball in the sky and i am pretty sure it will be there again tomorrow and the next day and will still be there when my future great, great grandchildren are pushing up daisys. Life goes on people and I certainly wont be losing any sleep.

And so it'll be for the next two years too.

Bluejohn - clearly NOT a Douglas Adams fan....and I agree that better this than same-same because something good will come out of it....for the EU (version 2.0 Carstel - I hope so).

No other countries will come out - even if they DO vote which I doubt because the country's leader (like Cameron) who pushes for a vote that remains will be committing political suicide....and 'they' don't like relinquishing power that easily !

Mike, I like and respect you and your love for Zs but I read your words and I see Mr Trump giving a speech on his Scottish (soon to be EU) golfcourse.

The USA will rightly follow the money and influence (there is no 'old-friend' status - there never was) and England/Wales will quietly become a pleasant back-water.

Al : "Must say I'm not really interested in the opinions of those who don't live here, don't pay taxes here and don't put their income into the UK economy. If your voice to be heard then use it in the country you live in. Simple. It's called Democracy."

I thought that being a British citizen and passport holder still gave me rights within the UK, my parents too who do still pay UK taxes upon their UK pensions......under your logic, those EUpassport citizens (Poles, French etc) paying UK taxes should have the vote and with more right to do so then I who'll also be affected by whatever outcome ?

Chaps, the world is not as simple as the sun still rising.....but don't worry, the pound in your pocket will still be the same.....:

http://moneyweek.com/19-november-1967-harold-wilsons-pound-in-your-pocket-fib/

 

[bluejon]

Bluejohn - clearly NOT a Douglas Adams fan....and I agree that better this than same-same because something good will come out of it....for the EU (version 2.0 Carstel - I hope so).

Not exactly a fan Sean, but I've read the book back in the day and I did note your cultural reference. Wasn't it in that book that the Vogon's were acting all superior and drove a cart and horses (i.e. galactic superhighway) right through a small state (i.e. Earth) in the interests of the suppoosed greater good of their greater empire. But the Brits made out of the situation to make their way in the universe (well Arthur did at any rate).

 

[SeanDezart]

But the Brits made out of the situation to make their way in the universe (well Arthur did at any rate).

No, Brits, Trillian made it too.

 

[Al Douglas]

Posted by Sean ; I thought that being a British citizen and passport holder still gave me rights within the UK,

No Sean, I'm afraid not. Sorry to be pedantic but a passport is simply an identity document and proof of nationality, as for citizens rights, you forfeit these when living in exile for more than 15 years which is why you don't have the right to vote here.

Can we get back to cars now? And Sean can continue to be the oracle of all things Z on which matters I DO value his opinion!

 

[Al Douglas]

The French and Dutch next to come out,and if you moved abroad then it's your choice when it doesn't work out,tuff ,get over it the Irish are ruled by ex terrorists,Ie mcguiness and co so who gives a toss if they want to come out,the Scottish are ruled by some doris who is dangerous and could turn out to be worse than thatcher,so really us English don't need the Irish,Scottish,Germans,French and co,it's them that really wants us

You are absolutely right, Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales all need England and together all 4 are the stronger for it. Love your description Nicola S who is now to be known as "Dangerous Doris", brilliant.

 

[SeanDezart]

Sorry to be pedantic but a passport is simply an identity document and proof of nationality, as for citizens rights, you forfeit these when living in exile for more than 15 years which is why you don't have the right to vote here.

We're not off subject so a last reply : non-British (but not EU) residents, even temporary could vote and British subject couldn't and you consider that ok.....because it gave the desired result ?

You can therefore understand my sadness that I am no longer valued as a British citizen - I feel the vote has ripped up my roots.

Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales all need England and together all 4 are the stronger for it.

Except that the vote has decively split the country into two !

 

[Al Douglas]

We're not off subject so a last reply : non-British (but not EU) residents, even temporary could vote and British subject couldn't and you consider that ok.....because it gave the desired result ?

I didn't say that I thought that was ok, but they are the rules. They are resident here so can vote, as for the desired result, I would feel the same had it been a remain vote.

;You can therefore understand my sadness that I am no longer valued as a British citizen - I feel the vote has ripped up my roots.

I understand that you may be sad but, again, you don't live in the UK nor contribute to its social and economic growth so isn't it understandable, if not pleasant, that the UK cuts people out who have settled elsewhere?
As for your roots, they will always be your roots and you can return to them anytime you choose.

Except that the vote has decively split the country into two !

Split the country on this question but not, hopefully, on the question of the Union. Dangerous Doris will not call for another referendum unless she is 100% sure of victory and that is certainly not now nor, I believe, in the near future.

 

[SeanDezart]

I understood those to be the rules - doesn't make them correct and it does feel sore that a Brit has less say in HIS country than Commonwealth migrants (ie citizens of their own countries and not the UK) from 54 states - including *Australia, Canada, India, Pakistan and Nigeria but rules are rules and I respect the outcome.
I won't be coming back, am looking forward to meeting up with you guys and Rob Crofton at Le Mans Classic next month and wish you all a happy future whether together as a union or not.

Doris'll call the vote - I bet you because she'll be set for life when you vote FOR the EU.

 

[Al Douglas]

Doris won't call an independence referendum for some time because if she gets another No vote, it's the end of her career (oh please!). Anyway, if she does and it's a Yes vote, I'll be moving to England or maybe France
Sadly won't be at Le Mans this year but hope to be on the continent again next year in the Sam, if I get to France I'll pop in and say hello.

 

[bluejon]

Doris won't call an independence referendum for some time ...

Instead, in today's developments it looks as though she wishes to make representations to have the EU retain Scotland having EU rights (or membership) - kind of on a technicality given that it isn't currently an actual member state.

 

[SeanDezart]

Instead, in today's developments it looks as though she wishes to make representations to have the EU retain Scotland having EU rights (or membership) - kind of on a technicality given that it isn't currently an actual member state.

It's called diplomacy.

Anyway, if she does and it's a Yes vote, I'll be moving to..... maybe France
Sadly won't be at Le Mans this year but hope to be on the continent again next year in the Sam, if I get to France I'll pop in and say hello.

Not sure I follow your logic re Scotland voting EU and maybe coming to France but if you do pop over, you'd be weclome and I'm onlyt 2hrs SW of LM !

 

[SacCyclone]

Sean, your correct regarding the Trump reference to my prior statements, and I'm not alone here in the states.

The economist (Harry Dent) I follow just released an addition to his newsletter today to his subscribers. I copied part of it below.

"From his press conference in Scotland, Donald Trump was quick to draw a correlation between the Britons’ decision to leave the EU, and the decision American voters face in November. He’s absolutely right. Trump is our Brexit equivalent. The people couldn’t care less about keeping the status quo and the establishment in place. Rather, they’d prefer to blow it to smithereens."

We shall soon see if this come to fruition.

 

[SeanDezart]

We shall soon see if this come to fruition.

Indeed and of course, like the Brexit potical supporters here currently out of power, Mr Trump has everything to gain and nothing to lose by playing the 'save our country' tune !

But it's all too emotive and irrational politics for me - WW1 started THAT way with everyone cheering for their side, convincing themselves it was a matter of national survival.

Mixing with others is still imho the best way to keep the peace despite the provocation of a minority in the world ; closing borders, segregation and building walls is a short-term security fraught with dubious morality.

 

[Al Douglas]

Sean, I'm referring to a yes vote for Scotland to go independent, not an EU vote. If the scots voted for independence I'd probably move out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[SeanDezart]

Sean, I'm referring to a yes vote for Scotland to go independent, not an EU vote. If the scots voted for independence I'd probably move out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A vote for EU membership will automate a move for independence following Friday's result - THAT's why she dithers but ultimately, the wind's been blowing in that direction for years : I remember working with Scots when that Australian played a Scottish hero's role - gosh, did they rip into me - old wounds heal slow....I then read his biography and the film was nothing like it but the pub's landlord was also Scottish so I had to buy the rounds..... !

 

[280REZ]

Something had to give decades of Governments inept and short sited.30 years ago we had a chance to invest in the NHS , Transport Systems and Education to build a strong infrastructure and allow young people into apprenticeships or further education.
This opportunity wasn’t taken and forced the UK to look elsewhere due to labour shortages. On top of this foreign workers were keen to come here to improve their lifestyles and give something to the country.
The result a lack of investment in traditional industries which were scrapped and no alternative found. This in turn meant a country happy to pay out benefits as the so-called solution.
30 years later resources are stretched competition abroad has increased leading to economic hardships in the UK.The elderly had experienced warfare and now wish to retire In peace and quiet Their only wish to walk down the street in a secure world void of crime and where the majority of people will communicate in English.
London has always been London and has looked after itself financially - The rest of the country has had the raw deal and it’s no surprise that even educated people have sought an exit from Europe.
Although surprised by the result I think this will be a great opportunity for the UK to go forward and achieve greatness again.One things for sure those in power will have to treat the electorate with a bit of respect from now on.

 

[status]

Well put 280 .Thatcher sold us down the river,she sold our industry,smashed the unions clever how she did that if any of you remember it,nhs went downhill as the tories allways make cuts when they get in and we allways have recessions,same happened with this other idiot we have now,the U.K. Had a fair vote to stay or go,it's called democracy and like I already said millions died so we can still have that so I say to those that are still winging shut up and put up because you can allways go and live in Hungary as they are still in the eu or Any of the othe countries that are in it,as for the other lot,the scots,Irish,Welsh,they are allways considered to be part of us but a lot of them are still winging,I don't see them rushing back to there own part of the U.K.,so it can't be that bad here can it

 

[bluejon]

Hurrah for the butcher in Barnstaple now selling sausages in pounds instead of kilos. I look forward to being able to put a gallon of petrol in the Z rather than 4.545 litres. There's nothing wrong with a pound of sausages, or a gallon of fuel never was. No different than having a pint of beer which we are still allowed to do.

I think we'll all be amazed as time ticks on just now many things we have, rules we follow etc. are because of the EU. Keep your eyes and ears open and challenge this stuff. Latest that caught my attention are those km signs that now run the entire length of the M40 ... for no reason whatsoever.

I look forward to the EU coming to an end and being replaced by a free trade area, with free movement of labour for continental countries. Both of these things can exist without any parliament or seven hundreds of MEPs, various flavours of European Court, a president, 14 vice presidents or commissioners, no European Council or the Council of the EU (no I don't know either) and no official anthem (yes there is one). NB, there may be a banking entity to manage the euro, assuming that survives it's growing crisis. That's OK though because the UK isn't in it.

Bring on simplicity ... liberte, egalite, fraternite. Why has France lost sight of those ideals?