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Bleeding clutch..
- Thread starter Ian Patmore
- Start date
Ian Patmore
Well-Known Forum User
Well, took the gearbox out, and I have the shorter collar for the release bearing in. That does not seem to work, so the option is the longer collar.....opinions please.....
The short one measures approx. 30mm from the edge of the bearing back, and the longer one is approx.40mm
The short one measures approx. 30mm from the edge of the bearing back, and the longer one is approx.40mm
Nigel Brook
Well-Known Forum User
Think we better go back to basics here, so what gearbox are you using ( 280zx?), depth of clutch? What flywheel? As I've said in a previous thread there are at least 5 different Datsun carriers and it does'nt just depend on length but also on the position of the ears for the clutch fork.
If you have a 280zx box with a standard depth 240mm clutch, the overall length from the underside of the bearing should be 35mm with the face of the fork ears 17mm from the underside. Got a spare one if you need it.
If you have a 280zx box with a standard depth 240mm clutch, the overall length from the underside of the bearing should be 35mm with the face of the fork ears 17mm from the underside. Got a spare one if you need it.
Ian Patmore
Well-Known Forum User
Hi Nigel,
Early 280zx gearbox, depth of clutch, don't know, will investigate, flywheel, Tilton 225mm. Currently have 280zx fork. Have to investigate measurements.
Early 280zx gearbox, depth of clutch, don't know, will investigate, flywheel, Tilton 225mm. Currently have 280zx fork. Have to investigate measurements.
Last edited by a moderator:
Ian Patmore
Well-Known Forum User
The shorter bearing measures; 29mm from top of bearing to the top of collar, 11mm from top of bearing to bottom of "clutch fork ear", 19mm from bearing to top of "clutch fork ear", 18.7mm length of clutch fork ear and a width of 11.4mm. All I have for now
Cheers
Ian
Cheers
Ian
Nigel Brook
Well-Known Forum User
If I read your "depths" and "widths" correctly that's definately a standard 240 collar. The critical measurements are the clutch pressure plate depth and thickness of the flywheel. BTW what's a Tilton flywheel?
Ian Patmore
Well-Known Forum User
Tilton is an aftermarket made flywheel, which was a Nissan Motorsports US part many years ago. Basically the same as a 240z flywheel but in aluminium (except obviously the contact area). Thanks for confirming that it looks like I fitted the "correct" collar, rather than a 280zx one. I will take the other measurements soon, probably at the weekend.
Thanks Nigel
Ian
Thanks Nigel
Ian
Nigel Brook
Well-Known Forum User
As I said, the depth of clutch/flywheel is critical to the correct collar. It does'nt necessarily follow that because it's a 240 you have the right one.
Nigel Brook
Well-Known Forum User
Ian Patmore
Well-Known Forum User
Hi Nigel,
Yes I did find the guide picture you posted, but tried to keep away from the US market, as things can be different. I know the collar I put on may not be correct, but at least I tried the "correct" collar for a 240z clutch. I would have been more annoyed if I put totally the wrong one... anyway, will get the measurements, and take it from there.
Yes I did find the guide picture you posted, but tried to keep away from the US market, as things can be different. I know the collar I put on may not be correct, but at least I tried the "correct" collar for a 240z clutch. I would have been more annoyed if I put totally the wrong one... anyway, will get the measurements, and take it from there.
Ian Patmore
Well-Known Forum User
Hi Nigel,
Ok, the flywheel is 25mm thick, the whole clutch assembly is 46.5mm thick. Height of pressure plate "fingers" while on a flat surface, not under tension is 38mm. Gap between said fingers and clutch disc when fitted is 24mm.
Regards
Ian
Ok, the flywheel is 25mm thick, the whole clutch assembly is 46.5mm thick. Height of pressure plate "fingers" while on a flat surface, not under tension is 38mm. Gap between said fingers and clutch disc when fitted is 24mm.
Regards
Ian
Nigel Brook
Well-Known Forum User
Right. The basic problem you have here is that you are using a 280zx box(early or late) with a shallower clutch.
Clutch fingers on a 280 pressure plate, 47mm from a flat surface.
Your pressure plate 38mm.
Therefore we have 9mm difference.
The 280 carrier is 6mm longer from bearing to fork ears and overall 6mm longer.
Assuming the clutch fork pivot height hasn't been altered the 280 carrier is the one you need.
If you can imagine, your short carrier has to travel 6mm before it reaches where the 280 one would already be. This is multiplied by approx 2 at the slave cylinder end because of the ratio of the length of clutch fork between the pivot to slave cylinder and pivot to carrier. This would make your slave cylinder pushrod approx 12mm too short.
Don't forget your 280zx slave cylinder is self adjusting and will take up any additional slack.
The height of the pivot inside the gearbox should be 30mm from the casting lug.
Hope this is clear
Clutch fingers on a 280 pressure plate, 47mm from a flat surface.
Your pressure plate 38mm.
Therefore we have 9mm difference.
The 280 carrier is 6mm longer from bearing to fork ears and overall 6mm longer.
Assuming the clutch fork pivot height hasn't been altered the 280 carrier is the one you need.
If you can imagine, your short carrier has to travel 6mm before it reaches where the 280 one would already be. This is multiplied by approx 2 at the slave cylinder end because of the ratio of the length of clutch fork between the pivot to slave cylinder and pivot to carrier. This would make your slave cylinder pushrod approx 12mm too short.
Don't forget your 280zx slave cylinder is self adjusting and will take up any additional slack.
The height of the pivot inside the gearbox should be 30mm from the casting lug.
Hope this is clear
Sylv1
Well-Known Forum User
Back to home,
here is a general view of my different setups:
On the left, my working 225mm (4speeds "B" US 73 or my donnor car/French 5 speed 240L Laurel sedan are the same); it was working with my long collar (I made 10000km with it). It corresponds to the "Type B 4Speeds" from the previously posted picture.
Thickness of clutch mechanism: about 45mm from spring to flywheel
So effectively, I was wrong => My donnor 5speed Laurel was having the config of 4speeds Z...
On the center, a 240mm from UK 82' ZX; it was working on my Z with short collar (bought from MSA last year). I made 5000km with it. It is closed from the type B 5speeds.=> that should be about 240z configuration in europe.
Thickness of clutch mechanism: about 50mm from spring to flywheel
On the right, another 225mm from a US 240z 4speeds (71) or swiss 260z (not sure because I bought mixed parts of both cars)... but the clutch mechanism is as thick as ZX (about 50mm from spring to flywheel compared to 45mm).
Due to what I learned thanks to this post, I assume it is from 5speeds 260z
As a conclusion and I think it is the measure to check whatever is the configuration but standard flywheel :
If I check the added lenght of clutch mechanism + collar (at the machined face of ears) : I obtain 91mm in both working configurations
I agree with conclusion of having to find a longer hub.
here is a general view of my different setups:
On the left, my working 225mm (4speeds "B" US 73 or my donnor car/French 5 speed 240L Laurel sedan are the same); it was working with my long collar (I made 10000km with it). It corresponds to the "Type B 4Speeds" from the previously posted picture.
Thickness of clutch mechanism: about 45mm from spring to flywheel
So effectively, I was wrong => My donnor 5speed Laurel was having the config of 4speeds Z...
On the center, a 240mm from UK 82' ZX; it was working on my Z with short collar (bought from MSA last year). I made 5000km with it. It is closed from the type B 5speeds.=> that should be about 240z configuration in europe.
Thickness of clutch mechanism: about 50mm from spring to flywheel
On the right, another 225mm from a US 240z 4speeds (71) or swiss 260z (not sure because I bought mixed parts of both cars)... but the clutch mechanism is as thick as ZX (about 50mm from spring to flywheel compared to 45mm).
Due to what I learned thanks to this post, I assume it is from 5speeds 260z
As a conclusion and I think it is the measure to check whatever is the configuration but standard flywheel :
If I check the added lenght of clutch mechanism + collar (at the machined face of ears) : I obtain 91mm in both working configurations
I agree with conclusion of having to find a longer hub.
Last edited by a moderator:
Ian Patmore
Well-Known Forum User
Thank you Nigel and Sylvian.
So, I will fit the longer collar I have and the fork. Luckly I had a new bearing fitted to this collar just in case. I will check the fork pivot height as well.
It is also good to have this info for anyone's future reference.
Thank you again
Ian
So, I will fit the longer collar I have and the fork. Luckly I had a new bearing fitted to this collar just in case. I will check the fork pivot height as well.
It is also good to have this info for anyone's future reference.
Thank you again
Ian
Nigel Brook
Well-Known Forum User
Just to clarify, the 30mm length of the pivot is the actual length showing. As far as I'm aware there should be a locknut at the casting end. It's the length from the pivot side of the locknut.
Right I have my 240mm clutch out now. I can confirm that the total distance from Flywheel surface to fork faces (ears) of carrier is 92mm (50 clutch - Nissan supply, 42 carrier). Pivot length as Nigel says is 30mm.
So we all agree the total distance now (within 1mm). Biggest learning point is that there are lots of configurations of pressure plate and carrier. The 42mm carrier is the middle of three I have,
So we all agree the total distance now (within 1mm). Biggest learning point is that there are lots of configurations of pressure plate and carrier. The 42mm carrier is the middle of three I have,