240Z/260Z front suspension strut

[dcrobbo]

Can any advice on if the early uk spec 260Z had the 240z front suspension (top pic) set up, or would it have been the later set up (bottom pic)
as I'm looking to try and overhaul my existing solid lower platform adjustable coil overs. and I'm looking to fit a used temporary set up.


this is whats on at the moment

 

[Geoff-R]

Yes, from what I understand the early UK 260z suspension was the same as the 240z suspension.

 

[Rob Gaskin]

David, I don't understand this bit: solid lower platform adjustable coil overs. Perhaps 'solid top-mounts and adjustable lower platform coil-overs'?

You have 'solid top-mounts' i.e. no rubber just aluminium blocks with rose-joints at each corner.

As far as I am aware standard 240Z suspension will be suitable in that shell (my old SAM). However even as a temporary measure it will be a chore and on standard springs it will look too high. You would have to do front and rear or it will be like a speedboat.

Overhaul - you already have adjustable height suspension and sporty springs. What you need for a better ride is standard rubber top-mounts, front bearings and 4 spring 'upper seats' modified to locate the 2 and 1/4" springs. I've seen that done with a short tube welded into the upper seats to locate the smaller diameter than standard spring - see attached showing the actual arrangement on my trackday car.

 

[MCBladeRun]

I think he means to fit something temporarily until he can sort out his coil-overs?

Probably wants to put the correct type (240z/260z) for his car.

Surely if it's temporary it doesn't matter which method you use? The difference between 240z/260z is negligible and is possibly only going to be a couple inches between the 2?

As an aside, those images from the Haynes manual are deceiving: I've got numbers 2 and 3 from the top, and 5 and 7 from the bottom? Might just be improved design as time went on and possibly aftermarket upgrades / mods?

Shouldn't be too hard to get a used suspension set up, are you looking for just the fronts or rear also?

 

[dcrobbo]

David, I don't understand this bit: solid lower platform adjustable coil overs. Perhaps 'solid top-mounts and adjustable lower platform coil-overs'?

You have 'solid top-mounts' i.e. no rubber just aluminium blocks with rose-joints at each corner.

As far as I am aware standard 240Z suspension will be suitable in that shell (my old SAM). However even as a temporary measure it will be a chore and on standard springs it will look too high. You would have to do front and rear or it will be like a speedboat.

Overhaul - you already have adjustable height suspension and sporty springs. What you need for a better ride is standard rubber top-mounts, front bearings and 4 spring 'upper seats' modified to locate the 2 and 1/4" springs. I've seen that done with a short tube welded into the upper seats to locate the smaller diameter than standard spring - see attached showing the actual arrangement on my trackday car.

Thank's Rob, What I was getting at, is the lower strut section has no adjustment, that is you can't screw the damper in and out, so as to alter the ride height. I may be not seeing the whole concept, but it appears to me that the top part on the existing shocks just alters the spring tension?

 

[dcrobbo]

I think he means to fit something temporarily until he can sort out his coil-overs?

Probably wants to put the correct type (240z/260z) for his car.

Surely if it's temporary it doesn't matter which method you use? The difference between 240z/260z is negligible and is possibly only going to be a couple inches between the 2?

As an aside, those images from the Haynes manual are deceiving: I've got numbers 2 and 3 from the top, and 5 and 7 from the bottom? Might just be improved design as time went on and possibly aftermarket upgrades / mods?

Shouldn't be too hard to get a used suspension set up, are you looking for just the fronts or rear also?

Yes, I was looking to fit a full used set of original type of dampers and springs, with the possibility if not being successful then having the option to convert them to BC type coil overs when funds permit.
Secondly, are you saying that the 260z suspension set up will fit to 240z's?
Sorry for the poor descriptive text and images, I thought it might help!

 

[MCBladeRun]

Yes, I was looking to fit a full used set of original type of dampers and springs, with the possibility if not being successful then having the option to convert them to BC type coil overs when funds permit.
Secondly, are you saying that the 260z suspension set up will fit to 240z's?
Sorry for the poor descriptive text and images, I thought it might help!

My knowledge is very limited as I've only ever owned a 240z. Other forum users will be able to acknowledge this but, essentially the S30 chassis changed only marginally over the years before the S130.

You could, in theory move all the parts from a 280z onto a 240z chassis, barring any slight differences through wear and tear ofc.

But when you look at a 280zx, you see the massive difference between the chassis.

So, you own a car with no suspension at all or?..

 

[Rob Gaskin]

My knowledge is very limited as I've only ever owned a 240z. Other forum users will be able to acknowledge this but, essentially the S30 chassis changed only marginally over the years before the S130.

You could, in theory move all the parts from a 280z onto a 240z chassis, barring any slight differences through wear and tear ofc.

But when you look at a 280zx, you see the massive difference between the chassis.

So, you own a car with no suspension at all or?..

No the later 260 and 280 have taller rear struts.

 

[Rob Gaskin]

Thank's Rob, What I was getting at, is the lower strut section has no adjustment, that is you can't screw the damper in and out, so as to alter the ride height. I may be not seeing the whole concept, but it appears to me that the top part on the existing shocks just alters the spring tension?

The ride height is altered by raising or lowering the two rings at the bottom of the spring. There are two to lock them against each other. I think the previous owner to me (Jonathan) fitted new shocker inserts.

 

[Albrecht]

...see attached showing the actual arrangement on my trackday car.

Crikey Rob, that's a blast from the past. Those photos were taken in the basement of my old house in Bloomsbury. How many years ago was that?!

 

[Rob Gaskin]

IMO if you fit standard 240 or early 260 suspension to your Samuri it will be a lot of aggro and it will look silly (too high) and be too soft. I know what standard suspension is like and it's even too soft on a standard car these days. I think your wheels are 8x15, you may be ok but wide wheels can sometimes foul the standard lower spring platform?

 

[MCBladeRun]

Didn't realise this was your old Samuri Rob?

 

[richiep]

Worth noting, as it hasn't been yet, that 240Z/early 260Z strut tubes have an outer diameter of 51mm (50.8 actually), while the later 260Z/280Z ones are 55mm.

There are also differences between the perch heights for the North American spec struts (with their softer springs) and the Euro/JDM-style ones. Meaning you need to get the right combinations of springs and struts or things can get messy.

 

[dcrobbo]

The ride height is altered by raising or lowering the two rings at the bottom of the spring. There are two to lock them against each other. I think the previous owner to me (Jonathan) fitted new shocker inserts.

As mentioned, surly this compresses the spring and stiffens them when they are tightened to lower the car?

 

[dcrobbo]

Worth noting, as it hasn't been yet, that 240Z/early 260Z strut tubes have an outer diameter of 51mm (50.8 actually), while the later 260Z/280Z ones are 55mm.

There are also differences between the perch heights for the North American spec struts (with their softer springs) and the Euro/JDM-style ones. Meaning you need to get the right combinations of springs and struts or things can get messy.

Thanks for your input.

 

[dcrobbo]

David, I don't understand this bit: solid lower platform adjustable coil overs. Perhaps 'solid top-mounts and adjustable lower platform coil-overs'?

You have 'solid top-mounts' i.e. no rubber just aluminium blocks with rose-joints at each corner.

As far as I am aware standard 240Z suspension will be suitable in that shell (my old SAM). However even as a temporary measure it will be a chore and on standard springs it will look too high. You would have to do front and rear or it will be like a speedboat.

Overhaul - you already have adjustable height suspension and sporty springs. What you need for a better ride is standard rubber top-mounts, front bearings and 4 spring 'upper seats' modified to locate the 2 and 1/4" springs. I've seen that done with a short tube welded into the upper seats to locate the smaller diameter than standard spring - see attached showing the actual arrangement on my trackday car.

Rob, please could you give a bit more of an idiots guide to the overhaul bit?

 

[Rob Gaskin]

Crikey Rob, that's a blast from the past. Those photos were taken in the basement of my old house in Bloomsbury. How many years ago was that?!

I think that it must be about 20 years Alan. Think you had an Alfa at the time, if that helps?

In my lifetime that's quite recent.

That suspension served me well.

 

[Rob Gaskin]

Rob, please could you give a bit more of an idiots guide to the overhaul bit?

Hi David, it's just what I said:

The easiest route for you is to obtain 4 standard 240 rubber top-mounts (the parts that bolt to the top of the turrets), standard bearings (only needed at the front because those struts need to swivel and 4 standard upper spring seats. However those spring seats are for the standard larger dia springs so the springs you have will be loose at the top. What was done on mine was that someone had welded a short tube (about 1" long) on the underside of the spring seat over which your springs will fit and seat. The tube needs an outside dia just a shade smaller than the inside dia of your springs. If you look at my 2nd picture you'll see that the springs are a lot smaller than the top-mount where a standard wider spring would fit.

 

[Rob Gaskin]

As mentioned, surly this compresses the spring and stiffens them when they are tightened to lower the car?

To raise the car your screw the lower platform up. You don't compress the spring anymore than the weight of the car does, unless you've raised it so much that the shocker is fully extended and it can't go any higher. After that raising the platform more would compress the spring.

Obviously to lower the car you screw the platform down taking care to make sure that the spring isn't loose when the suspension drops, for example if you jack the car up.

The great thing about this type of suspension is that you can 'play about' with ride height and different spring poundage to get what suits you. Getting each corner correct can be a fiddle because altering one corner affects the corner diagonally opposite. Competition cars are not only set-up for ride height but also for weight distribution across all 4 wheels. They use scales under each wheel to measure the corner weights.

 

[dcrobbo]

Hi David, it's just what I said:

The easiest route for you is to obtain 4 standard 240 rubber top-mounts (the parts that bolt to the top of the turrets), standard bearings (only needed at the front because those struts need to swivel and 4 standard upper spring seats. However those spring seats are for the standard larger dia springs so the springs you have will be loose at the top. What was done on mine was that someone had welded a short tube (about 1" long) on the underside of the spring seat over which your springs will fit and seat. The tube needs an outside dia just a shade smaller than the inside dia of your springs. If you look at my 2nd picture you'll see that the springs are a lot smaller than the top-mount where a standard wider spring would fit.

Thanks Rob for your time and effort with the last two queries.