What did you do to your Z this week?

uk66fastback

Club Member
I actually shifted some stuff from the roof of my car where it had been for months / years and gave it a dust-down. Getting to spend a few hours in the garage with it brought back a fair bit of the love I have for it. Need to get on with redoing the carbs and exhaust manifold fitting and then making it all work again ... this furlough thing gives me the chance.

f8l9ls8C.jpg
 

AliK

Vehicle Dating Officer
Staff member
Club Member
You feeling ok franky?

It’s just Isolation Sickness!

Had to pull the tacho again today after realising when turning left the right hand indicator tell-tale flashed and likewise with the right side. When I swapped the bulbs in the instruments the other week I clearly got them wrong! All sorted now.

So easily done! We’ve all done something like that and you hope the next time that learning has taken place - if only! ;)

I actually shifted some stuff from the roof of my car where it had been for months / years and gave it a dust-down. Getting to spend a few hours in the garage with it brought back a fair bit of the love I have for it. Need to get on with redoing the carbs and exhaust manifold fitting and then making it all work again ... this furlough thing gives me the chance.

f8l9ls8C.jpg

I have total garage envy! That is a very lovely looking car chap! [emoji106]
 

Turn & Burn

Club Member
Given the quality and spec of the rest of your car..............
Jason, thought I’d attach this text from a post from Derek Williams (Datsun Works) for a bit of light reading on Kameari Chain tensioners.....

I'm going to come down on the side of not a good idea for a street motor that isn't torn down regularly. There is a ton of energy in a chain and sprocket drive system. When the chain exits a sprocket you get what is called a polygon effect. Since sprockets are polygons the chain exiting the sprocket has whip to it. What we call a tensioner is really more of a oil filled damper. It does double duty. It keeps the chain tight but it in conjunction with the slack side guide works to wrestle the unstable chain as it exits the sprocket and stabilize it before it enters the next one. The smaller the sprocket the worse the polygon effect. A setup like this puts a ton of stress on the pins and rollers since there is no damping. This is why a pivoting slack side guide is so much better. It has more resolution to react to the changing energy of the chain.

Chains don’t stretch as much as the bushings and rollers wear and elongate. A ridged setup like this only accelerates this since you have to keep taking up the slack which then starts the cycle again until you have a catastrophic failure.

So now instead of whip being induced at the crank sprocket you now have whip as it exits two more small sprockets.

Now after saying all of that if you don’t plan on putting a ton of miles on it you probably won’t have an issue. If you need to keep adjusting it I would be very careful how far you go.
 
Jason, thought I’d attach this text from a post from Derek Williams (Datsun Works) for a bit of light reading on Kameari Chain tensioners.....

I'm going to come down on the side of not a good idea for a street motor that isn't torn down regularly. There is a ton of energy in a chain and sprocket drive system. When the chain exits a sprocket you get what is called a polygon effect. Since sprockets are polygons the chain exiting the sprocket has whip to it. What we call a tensioner is really more of a oil filled damper. It does double duty. It keeps the chain tight but it in conjunction with the slack side guide works to wrestle the unstable chain as it exits the sprocket and stabilize it before it enters the next one. The smaller the sprocket the worse the polygon effect. A setup like this puts a ton of stress on the pins and rollers since there is no damping. This is why a pivoting slack side guide is so much better. It has more resolution to react to the changing energy of the chain.

Chains don’t stretch as much as the bushings and rollers wear and elongate. A ridged setup like this only accelerates this since you have to keep taking up the slack which then starts the cycle again until you have a catastrophic failure.

So now instead of whip being induced at the crank sprocket you now have whip as it exits two more small sprockets.

Now after saying all of that if you don’t plan on putting a ton of miles on it you probably won’t have an issue. If you need to keep adjusting it I would be very careful how far you go.

Hes a smart guy. However i'd go for what the history of the part that Mr Mori desigend and what the past 25+ year the part has shown. Zero negative issues at all.

on the bike engines i've built, ex world endurance bikes i've owned which have been flat out all their lives, they've all had manual cam chain tensioners. which basically is all it is?
 

Albrecht

Well-Known Forum User
Jason, thought I’d attach this text from a post from Derek Williams (Datsun Works) for a bit of light reading on Kameari Chain tensioners.....

"So now instead of whip being induced at the crank sprocket you now have whip as it exits two more small sprockets."

Many years ago I was advocating the KEW twin idler tensioner over on the HybridZ forum, and one of the old timers there was convinced that the KEW twin idler setup would allow the timing chain to - and I quote - "twang like a geetar string". Seems to me that Derek might have formed his opinion under the same misapprehension.

There's no 'twang' with the twin idler. The KEW twin idler was designed to all but eliminate (unwanted) chain whip. The stock system is great for a production car, but starts to get marginal when the engine is tuned and - being mainly powered by oil-pressure - is easily overcome by sudden deceleration of the crankshaft, leaving the camshaft playing catch up. At that point you have 'twang' on the driven side of the chain, which can easily lead to pistons kissing valves, or worse.

Ironically, Nissan's very first iteration of its L-gata OHC engine module (the L20 six of 1964/5) had a hand-adjusted jockey wheel tensioner system very similar in principle to the KEW item. Both my S20 engines (kind of blue-blooded DNA for Nissan and Prince) have hand-adjusted jockey wheel tensioners for their cam chains. Adjusting the chain tension is part of the regular servicing schedule.

There are so many KEW twin idlers out there - in use - with such a low failure rate (I'm yet to hear of a proven case of failure) that I think you have to say at the very least that their clear benefits outweigh any 'not made here' type cynicism.
 

Turn & Burn

Club Member
Many years ago I was advocating the KEW twin idler tensioner over on the HybridZ forum, and one of the old timers there was convinced that the KEW twin idler setup would allow the timing chain to - and I quote - "twang like a geetar string". Seems to me that Derek might have formed his opinion under the same misapprehension.

There's no 'twang' with the twin idler. The KEW twin idler was designed to all but eliminate (unwanted) chain whip. The stock system is great for a production car, but starts to get marginal when the engine is tuned and - being mainly powered by oil-pressure - is easily overcome by sudden deceleration of the crankshaft, leaving the camshaft playing catch up. At that point you have 'twang' on the driven side of the chain, which can easily lead to pistons kissing valves, or worse.

Ironically, Nissan's very first iteration of its L-gata OHC engine module (the L20 six of 1964/5) had a hand-adjusted jockey wheel tensioner system very similar in principle to the KEW item. Both my S20 engines (kind of blue-blooded DNA for Nissan and Prince) have hand-adjusted jockey wheel tensioners for their cam chains. Adjusting the chain tension is part of the regular servicing schedule.

There are so many KEW twin idlers out there - in use - with such a low failure rate (I'm yet to hear of a proven case of failure) that I think you have to say at the very least that their clear benefits outweigh any 'not made here' type cynicism.

There’s nothing to disagree with there, I’ve never heard a reported failure, but anything that sounds like a ‘supercharger’ when in operation can’t be good for long life. It sounds like they’re being setup drum tight. I’ve never seen setup info as I haven’t got one (yet). I don’t know if anyone has ever set up a bike chain like this, for instance a fixie or track bike, they simply cannot be used, you can feel the chain dropping of each sprocket tooth and effort goes up many times, ie all the efficiency of the chain is removed, this will be replaced by excessive wear on chain pins and teeth and even bearings. Perhaps a good time to install the sump plug magnet!
How much flywheel effect does a camshaft and valve train on heavy duty valves springs have? Does it have enough energy to run on faster than the crank slows?
 

Albrecht

Well-Known Forum User
There’s nothing to disagree with there, I’ve never heard a reported failure, but anything that sounds like a ‘supercharger’ when in operation can’t be good for long life. It sounds like they’re being setup drum tight. I’ve never seen setup info as I haven’t got one (yet). I don’t know if anyone has ever set up a bike chain like this, for instance a fixie or track bike, they simply cannot be used, you can feel the chain dropping of each sprocket tooth and effort goes up many times, ie all the efficiency of the chain is removed, this will be replaced by excessive wear on chain pins and teeth and even bearings.

Kameari Engine Works supply comprehensive fitting and use instructions, which includes advice on how to set the ideal not-too-tight-not-too-loose initial tension. You set it with finger pressure, and it is pretty much impossible to set it too tight with this finger pressure method. Other aftermarket sellers have been hawking add-on turnbuckle tension adjusters - not blessed by KEW - which completely miss the point and risk over-tensioning. Some people just can't be helped...

Long life? We are talking about street performance/race parts here. If 100,000+ miles between engine rebuilds is an expectation then I think it best for that person to stick to stock specs and servicing in the first place. So how long is the expected service life of a performance/race engine between refreshes/rebuilds? How long is that piece of string? I certainly don't believe the KEW twin idler shortens the service life of a performance spec engine when correctly fitted and used.

How much flywheel effect does a camshaft and valve train on heavy duty valves springs have? Does it have enough energy to run on faster than the crank slows?

Having talked to Mr Mori of Kameari Engine Works about this, and having him explain his findings to me, I can say that chain whip with the stock system can be severe. Severe enough for the camshaft to become so out of synch with the crankshaft that pistons will kiss - and bend - valves under extreme conditions. Under extreme throttle-on, throttle-off situations - especially during downshifting - some pretty frightening stuff can go on. You can't see it! On a test bed, the stock tensioning system (it's an oil-pressure fed, spring-assisted, rubber friction shoe with two rubber-bonded guide plates) was seen to become completely overpowered by chain whip on both the 'slack' side and - more importantly - on the drive side. So much so that a harmonic of whip was seen going up and down the chain on both sides, much like sending a 'kick' down a skipping rope laid on the ground. The KEW twin idler all but eliminates this.

The KEW twin idler has other side benefits too, allowing a much skimmed cylinder head to be used without having to shim the cam towers and mess around with greatly oversized valve lash caps. And with the twin idler and the matching adjustable cam gear, cam timing can be set spot on and will stay spot on during use.

I should be on commission...
 

Huw

Club Member
Couldn’t take it anymore. Finally had to get the ZX out of the air chamber. Tinkered and polished it, went and fetched some um ‘bread’ and now I’m sated for the day.
Don’t want to leave the garage. :(

Oh and finally went to the PostOffice and registered it historic.

3361CC9B-5C9E-4996-BE3A-09913C8DED29.jpeg
 
Top