Toyota TA22 GT

SeanDezart

Well-Known Forum User
File:1970 Toyota Celica 01.jpg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Toyota Celica - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Just saw one of these just lying in a garage waiting for the owner to either sell or have it restored (but he doesn't have the money)..........I left my contact details - one never knows !

Just like the photo but without the wing mirrors, with a black vinyl roof and the 'GT' on the grill more classically written. I lifted the bonnet and yes, she's all intact, Mikuni carbs and all.;)
 

rhanagar

Well-Known Forum User
One near me in Norwich. Completly restored in the same pale yellow colour. Looks very nice.
 

zedhead260

Well-Known Forum User

Seems like quite an abundant choice for sale - do they come up often in France?
(and are you seriuos about buying one).


Don't be fooled into thinking the car you saw is a genuine GT just because of the twin-cam engine. Lots of ST's have them fitted now and it's fairly easy to come by GT grills and other badges on Ebay these days. You'll need to dig a bit deeper.

Also worth noting that US market GT's aren't real GT's. I'm not 100% on this, but I don't think they ever got the twin-cam engines. If they did it will only be on the very early cars before all the emmisions crap became law.
The US had the 18RC engine which is total dog shit BTW - avoid unless you just want a clean shell.

The 1600cc 2TG lump is the one to go for - better than the 2000cc 18RG. It's lighter for starters, has better con-rod angle and KEW sell lots of yummy things to make them go faster.

There's a multitude of body styles, engine types and trim levels with these cars - much more than what we got here in the UK (and I assume Europe too).

For me, pick of the bunch would be a "flat light, short nosed" TA22 GTV.

The TA27 is nice too, but £4k for something which needs work seems a bit steep.

were LSDs standard in the GTs in 1970 ?

Difficult one to answer - in Japan I think they may have been an option. In the UK we never got the GT until 1974 - but all UK GT's do have one as standard.
There isn't much info out there translated into English, it is a bit of a mine field. Dare I say it, but maybe even more complex than S30's.
 
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SeanDezart

Well-Known Forum User
Toyotas were widely sold here - Toyota started exporting several years before Nissan but after Honda.

The Celica is more common here than in the UK and was imported from 1970. I have a large hunch, gut-feeling that this is a genuine GT - it's been in this garge for nearly three years and previously in a barn under a tarpaulin for ten years. People generally don't mess about with cars over here because in theory, their insurance and MOT won't be valid and everything looks original, including the rusty doors and sills.

Yeah, If I can get one, this would be it - a genuine early-type GT. I don't know if the exported cars before 1974 have LSDs - I'm digging around and have ordered some early sales brocheres and a book - we'll see. There is supposed to be an owners' club too somewhere but they seem very discreet !

I miss the 23 I had which I should have kept when I moved to Holland - I should have sold the green Z which merely deteriorated outside and with lack of use but to sum up what you said " STs can't pull the skin off rice-puddings" and quite rightly US cars are crap. I can fiw the body here for less than importing one.

What sensible upgrades can one do - to improve the suspension, steering and brakes whilst keeping it 'period' ? A nice set of Minilites but what size looks right ?

The GTV is a Japanese model ? In any case, this GT feels original, is early and is already French.
 

zedhead260

Well-Known Forum User
I have a large hunch, gut-feeling that this is a genuine GT

Ok, well make sure it has the silver fascia on the dashboard and a plain black steering wheel. Will also have 5-speed gearbox and the head lining is a one-piece card type item.


STs can't pull the skin off rice-puddings

LOL - I'd call them "nippy" but they certainly don't set the street alight.
The ST is a push-rod cross-flow with twin down-drafts - they can make good power if you try. Early cars are around 1000kg's.
The cylinder block is the same for ST and GT and I think the only interchangeable part between T series and R series engines are the pistons. 2000cc pistons in a 1600cc over-bored block is said to produce 1750cc (but best you take that with a pinch of salt).

What sensible upgrades can one do - to improve the suspension, steering and brakes whilst keeping it 'period' ? A nice set of Minilites but what size looks right ?

Suspension work is fairly easy especially if you go with adjustable coil-overs. You can buy full urethane bush kits, uprated front and rear ARB's (no rear ARB as standard), roll centre adjusters, front strut braces, adjustable rear upper and lower lateral links.

Steering....not a lot. Just make sure everything is as good as it can be and live with the slop. You can convert to rack & pinion but it's not easy.

I've used Corolla GT (AE86) front struts which bolt straight in and give a vented front disc on a single piston sliding caliper but they are no larger in size.
Duncan used Celica Supra (MA61) front struts, but needed to piss about with TCA length as a consequence. Again gave a vented disc with single piston sliding caliper but a bit bigger than on his RA28 (which are slightly bigger still compared to a TA22).

Wheel diameter is your choice - early cars came 13", later ones 14".
7" width is about right though.

The GTV is a Japanese model ?

Yes - I think it was the light weight GT, but I have no idea how or by how much
 

SeanDezart

Well-Known Forum User
Ok, well make sure it has the silver fascia on the dashboard and a plain black steering wheel. Will also have 5-speed gearbox and the head lining is a one-piece card type item.

LOL - I'd call them "nippy" but they certainly don't set the street alight.

The cylinder block is the same for ST and GT and I think the only interchangeable part between T series and R series engines are the pistons. 2000cc pistons in a 1600cc over-bored block is said to produce 1750cc (but best you take that with a pinch of salt).

Suspension work is fairly easy especially if you go with adjustable coil-overs. You can buy full urethane bush kits, uprated front and rear ARB's (no rear ARB as standard), roll centre adjusters, front strut braces, adjustable rear upper and lower lateral links.

Steering....not a lot. Just make sure everything is as good as it can be and live with the slop.

Wheel diameter is your choice 7" width is about right though.

Matey - I've had three STs and an XT (obviously the 2 litre) and if you wind them up they get there but are intrinsically gutless !

I love the 1750 option - give the Alfas a scare........more about that later !

Suspension sounds reassuring - steering doesn't but I know what to do, turn a bit and then when you really need it, turn a lot more and count like you were counting a storm, seperating the lightening from the thunder....one Mississipi, two Mississipi.....

7"x15" then to have a better tyre choice - I wondered between 6.5 and 7 so you've saved me some time - sh*t - I'd better get Duncans favourite tipple in and get him talking - what does he like ?

Are you describing a 1970 GT with the fascia etc ?

Now.....if I get this one (and I'm gonna try) do I keep it standard-ish or go the 1750 route and then some ?

What about a Samuri replica........?

What about a circuit car for historic racing ?

Or just a different 2+2 for the family ?
 

zedhead260

Well-Known Forum User
Matey - I've had three STs and an XT (obviously the 2 litre) and if you wind them up they get there but are intrinsically gutless !

Yeah but 40's and 23's weight more - 22's are light :)

Suspension sounds reassuring - steering doesn't

A slightly smaller steering wheel helps....or at least gives the perception of more feel by less movement.

7"x15" then to have a better tyre choice - I wondered between 6.5 and 7 so you've saved me some time - sh*t - I'd better get Duncans favourite tipple in and get him talking - what does he like ?

I taught him everything he knows :D;)

Are you describing a 1970 GT with the fascia etc ?

Yep - ST's have wood look (there are some JDM variables though).

Now.....if I get this one (and I'm gonna try) do I keep it standard-ish or go the 1750 route and then some ?

Well I just love to modify so going to inject and turbo...............................one day
..................maybe :unsure:

What about a Samuri replica........?

That'd be a first

What about a circuit car for historic racing ?

Don't ding it - panel availability is non existent

Or just a different 2+2 for the family ?

That's more like it. I understand that the rear seat belt mountings are there, even though the belts aren't (haven't found them on mine yet though?
 

SeanDezart

Well-Known Forum User
Perhaps a genuine 1970 and therefore first series GT deserves to be kept original.............................................nah:lol: !

Better suspension, brake (is there no 4 piston upgrade ?), 15x7 Minilites, lowered adjustable suspension, (what about electronic ignition ?), better air filters, maybe even a modern LSD (Kaaz ?)

Strnage, one of the 23s I had had the rounded dash, the other had the same as the TA 40 and RA40 - was there a 1 1/2 series change over then ?

So what do YOU like to drink and well have a fireside chat.....ducky !
 

zedhead260

Well-Known Forum User
Perhaps a genuine 1970 and therefore first series GT deserves to be kept original.............................................nah !

I think a genuine GT of any year deserves more sympathetic modification and something which we have tried to do with Duncan's 28.
My crummy 22 ST on the other hand is getting very little sympathy.

Better suspension, brake (is there no 4 piston upgrade ?), 15x7 Minilites, lowered adjustable suspension, (what about electronic ignition ?), better air filters, maybe even a modern LSD (Kaaz ?)

You can buy Willwood upgrade for AE86 & MA61 but nothing for the standard strut/hub/brake assembly.
Duncan put Luminition on his.
An AE86 rear axle will bolt straight into a 22 and it will give you rear discs (which I think can be problematic). There's lots of upgrade stuff for AE86 diff's what with the drift scene etc.
A Quaife ATB is available and I think with some engineering work could be installed into a stock 22 open diff.

Strange, one of the 23s I had had the rounded dash, the other had the same as the TA 40 and RA40 - was there a 1 1/2 series change over then ?
Not sure.

So what do YOU like to drink and well have a fireside chat.....ducky !

Whatever, we'll have a drink anyway. Shame Duncan won't be in his Celica this time around else you could have had a more detailed nose around.
 

SeanDezart

Well-Known Forum User
I agree with you on the sympathetic mods for a genuine and especially early 1st version GT.

Ok, it's a big IF I get this one - he has to want to sell it........and it doesn't have an LSD, a Quaife is an option - they are lary at the back end, especially in the wet and that's with the modest 'ST' power !

Nothing to stop me finding suitable discs and calipers as we've done for 14" wheels over here then (see photos) once I have the hubs in my hands.

I don't think I'll complicate my life trying to fit rear discs - there are perhaps upgraded shoes available as per the racing versions for 240Zs.

But lower, stiffer suspension and 7x14 or 15 Minilites and quality tyres.

I'll have to try and get some photographs of the car in question.......but in the meantime, any photos you may have of GTs, the interior, engine etc and of Duncans' would be gratefully received via email.:eek:
 

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datsfun

Club Member
I agree with you on the sympathetic mods for a genuine and especially early 1st version GT.
So long as you dont go mental with FRP, everything is reversible. Bolt on JDM arches and Sr20 power is the way to go with these I say. There are a few 22,23 and 28's in the UK that have seen the benefits of nissan power and ditched the toyota 4 pot lumps:p

Ok, it's a big IF I get this one - he has to want to sell it........and it doesn't have an LSD, a Quaife is an option - they are lary at the back end, especially in the wet and that's with the modest 'ST' power !.
As already pointed out, rear axles from RA40, 28 and Ae86 bolt in (AFAIK). If you have axle options and want big power, stay away from the Ae86 item as it will not cope with> 220lb/ft. As you pay scene tax on any Ae86 stuff;)


Nothing to stop me finding suitable discs and calipers as we've done for 14" wheels over here then (see photos) once I have the hubs in my hands.

I don't think I'll complicate my life trying to fit rear discs - there are perhaps upgraded shoes available as per the racing versions for 240Zs.
I dont really see the need for rear discs TBH on a car that weights a ton. So long as the fronts are up to the job (vented and 4 piston), then rear discs are un-necessary unless you are doing lots of track days...I have 230+ brake in my non zed datsun and it copes with rear finned drums:driving:

But lower, stiffer suspension and 7x14 or 15 Minilites and quality tyres.
Tell me more about performance tyres in 14"...nothing wider than 195 available here in uk.:(
 

SeanDezart

Well-Known Forum User
I'm surprised at you.......these cars are rarer than hens' teeth and yet you don't hesitate to propose butchering one !

I'll be happy after some head-work to have 130bhp and will not be changing the engine - that's it's soul ! Maybe on a shitty ST but what you're proposing is like taking a 432 (well, almost) and installing an RB !

I'll have more than enough power early next year in my S30 - this is about modding her gently to a limited level - not chasing the fastest straightline speed !
 

datsfun

Club Member
I'm surprised at you.......these cars are rarer than hens' teeth and yet you don't hesitate to propose butchering one !!!
Its ONLY a family man's toyota :devil:

Please tell me you are jokin...Yes its potentially a GT, but rarer than hens' teeth it aint:unsure::D


I'll be happy after some head-work to have 130bhp and will not be changing the engine - that's it's soul ! Maybe on a shitty ST but what you're proposing is like taking a 432 (well, almost) and installing an RB !!


Admittedly its much rarer than the s30. Does this make it OK to swap a the Lgata for Rb or 1jz'on s30's :devil:

Will you really make use of the bigGer brakes and LSD with 120-130 ponies?
 
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SeanDezart

Well-Known Forum User
Now it's you that's joking.....there aren't many TA22s left (rust was worse than the Zs and no 'book-value' for many years condemned them to early graves) and GTs are far fewer. Add to that that GTs weren't introduced (as Rob stated) until 1974 and in 1976 the cars were TA23s.

To have a 1970 (first export year) GT is therefore inexistant in the UK and very rare over here. An unmolested example even more so.

The equivalent would be to find another genuine UK 1970 240Z.

The 240Z has 130bhp and a similar weight and everyone looks to upgrade the front brakes - why not for the Toyo ? Besides, it's probably cheaper to upgrade than to restore to original condition.

Don't talk to me about engine swaps - I respect the work that goes into them, the imagination but never, never on MY Z - it's the soul of the car.

Finally, the aim is to have a 2+2 and since I've sold my 260Z, t'would be nice to have another project, a bit of rare history in my hands and stay different !

Maybe some more clues in this that I've just bought :

Toyota : L'éveil d'un empire: Amazon.fr: Xavier Chauvin: Livres
 
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