Top Gears' 350 v. 300TT

[SeanDezart]

Even lost here in the French countryside, news filters (eventually) and what I heard surprised me.

As part of Top Gears' presentation they lined up new models with their older counterparts on a drag-strip to see whether or not their were improvements.
A Mk1 Golf GTi against the latest AND the new 350Z (with Renault Avantime engine?) against a 300TT. The TT stamped all over the 350 !
The 350 looks more like a Z but goes like an Espace !

 

[Tony 260Z]

Hmmm... cat amongst pigeons time...

*stands back to watch the fur fly*

 

[Mr.F]

I think you were watching a different show, Sean. First (as discussed elsewhere) the distance was 1/5 mile not a traditional 1/4 mile. The 350Z lead for much of this and exhibited better traction off the line. The Autocar tests would confirm that, due to differences in gearing, the 350Z might be a little slower in the mid section of an acceleration test, but will (in theory) be quicker than a stock TT manual over the 1/4 mile (or to 100mph which both achieve in the 1/4). Plus we all know that Top Gear have a hidden agenda when it comes to appraising the new car as JC can never back down from his outrageously wrong assessment of the car in his original test of a JDM model. We also don't know whether the 350Z ESP was switched on or off for the test. If "on" (the default condition), then off the mark acceleration will be impeded by up to a second over the quarter mile.

In reality, the two cars are very closely matched in many ways and performance is near identical if both driven to an equal standard by the drivers involved. What most are forgetting is that the TT had "Supercar" aspirations when released and cost a whopping £32,000 back in 1990. The basic model 350Z is aimed in the lower end Porsche / Audi TT sector of the market and costs "only" £24,000 in 2004. The fact that it is a match for the older "supercar" is a testament to the correctness of Nissan's design concept.

I'm ashamed that you are perpetuating the Clarkson generated myth that the engine is French - it may have been used by Renault before it appeared in a Nissan in the UK, but they nicked it off Nissan as part of the take-over deal.

 

[BarryD]

Supercar or not - you can pick up a Z32 for sub £5K OK it will be 13 years old but it still gave a good showing against the new boy.

 

[SkylineDave]

HERE HERE!

 

[Tony 260Z]

That's true. I wouldn't be at all ashamed to have one on my drive - £5k for that sort of performance is a bargain I'd have thought.

 

[SeanDezart]

I see the reason the price is lower is because they can't sell Nissans in such a league ! True the 350Z is great value for money, but it has to be against so much varied competition. It would be interesting to know how much they make on each car sold ! Is it a loss leader ?

Don't be too upset, I was getting this second - hand and put it up to get the truth. But nobody can predict the future and I hope their values don't plummet like the 300TTs.

As for ashamed on my opinion of the origins of the engine, what have you against a Renault heritage ? In my opinion, the only good thing about a Renault is the engine and they have put out some good ones ! It wouldn't surprise me if they designed the engine...Nissan has been too used for some time to extracting that sort of power per cc with turbos !

 

[john-boy]

Hmmm,

Test driving said 350 tomorrow, and will be extremely interested to see how it compares to my current 300 TT ... will post findings (I know, nothing new, but I do love the sound of my own voice ). Sorry.

I don't wish to fuel this argument any, cos I think we should be celebrating the fact that once again Nissan are producing (widely available) cars that are interesting enough to warrant headlines.

I'm going into the test-drive with an open mind, and if it's as good as I hope I *may* be replacing old with new in the not-too-distant regardless of TG's little cameo. You ain't seen me, right ..

Roll on 3pm tomorrow

CheerZ,
JB.

 

[SeanDezart]

Not having test driven either the 350Z or a Skyline, I'd still prefer a secondhand GTR Skyline over the new baby ! Congrats to all who have bought one - I hope you're all satisfied. Me ? I'm putting not far off the same money into a Z with approx. the same power output, it would be interesting to do a comparison at a later date and I don't just mean the performance figures ! Of course mine won't have ESP so of course it won't be fair to the 350Z !

 

[john-boy]

Well, I've had my test drive now (a good hour), and as threatened, here are my thoughts.

Wow, what a lovely motor, is the first thing that springs to mind. I'm now seriously considering putting down the deposit on an April delivery; finances will dictate. So, yes, I am prepared to part with my current Z32 to make the change. For some reason, beloved seems to think that we can't justify 4 cars between 2! Most unfair.

As for performance, I reckon that it's comparable to my current steed, which is lightly modded (exhaust, induction, de-cat), but no boost upgrade. The power delivery couldn't be more different though, with only overall pace being bang on, the same.

Beautiful creamy smooth V6 (window open recommended), lovely 6 speed 'box, and fantastic steering/handling/brakes.

Perhaps the only slight let down is the interior, which is fine, but not as radical as the Z32 was upon arrival, I think.

So in summary, my hat is firmly off to mr Nissan, it's a superb motor, and as I said, I hope one will be gracing my driveway later on this year!

I have to say (unusually) the Nissan dealer couldn't have been more enthusiastic either, and even interested in the club . On not such a positive note, however, they did manage not to call me back with purchase details today, as had been promised ..

Anyway, there's my tuppence.

CheerZ,
JB.

 

[Mr.F]

There's more to this car than you will appreciate on a short test run - I can thoroughly recommend it and it only gets better the more you drive it. Complete Z-ness as Nissan would like you to say! Your comments re. performance are spot-on - power delivery and the use of six gears with a very flat torque curve means it achieves pretty much the same as its predecessor in a completely different way. The only thing you might miss is the turbo "rush" - although given the current weather and the state of the country's roads, perhaps not. The "safe" progressive delivery of the 350Z power coupled with the ESP make this a very reassuring car to drive quickly in poor conditions. You will find the brakes a bit of an improvement over the stock Z32 offering also!

Interiorwise, I felt the Z32 was a bit corporate in its design at the time and now feels old-fashioned. The 350Z has the nice retro trim, the radical gauge set moving up and down with the column and the excellent little "computer" gauge which gives loads of useful info. Also the revision of storage space and the rear strut brace enhancement are quite radical features, surely?

 

[Gio]

Originally posted by Mr.F
... the Z32 was a bit corporate in its design at the time and now feels old-fashioned. The 350Z has the nice retro trim...

OK Mr.F, please elucidate the difference between "old-fashioned" and "retro"

 

[Mr.F]

"Old fashioned" is last years model or the previous model - just out of date. When the buying public are then told an old design is now back in fashion it will be "retro".

Flared trousers were just old fashioned in the nineties, but now might be considered retro...........

The Z32 will be retro in about twenty years time, just like the 240Z is now. By "corporate", I would liken the 300ZX to its smaller sister, the S13 200SX as having a similar interior design concept with the "ski slope" passenger dashboard and driver wraparound feel.

I have to say, I'm not sure why aluminium trim should be described as retro, but this seems to have been started by Audi with the TT.

 

[SeanDezart]

To sum up then, everything after the 240 is old fashioned except the 350Z which is retro ...?
I think Bentley started the alu. look with the Turbo R which is copied from the 'dashboards' of the thirties sports-cars, notably the Bugatti Tupe 35 37s.

Mike, do the slightly more mature Z owners class as old fashoined or retro or is defined by the type of car we own ?

 

[Gio]

It's one of those irregular verbs isn't it?

I am retro
you are old-fashioned
he is hopelessly out of date!

 

[john-boy]

Originally posted by Gio
I am retro
you are old-fashioned
he is hopelessly out of date!

LOL - very funny, Mike, very good ..

That's what I love about posting on this forum, none of those feelings of being a little on the more "mature" side, that I get on the "other" website!!

CheerZ,
JB.

 

[Homebrew]

I don't like the new 350Z. I think it looks cr*p compaired with the other Z cars, it looks more like a audi TT utter rubish. Is also not powerfull enough for me.

 

[Tony 260Z]

Blimey... no words minced there.

(not feeling-wise anyway).

 

[SeanDezart]

Well, I just read a comparison in 'Echappement' magazine, comparing the 350Z to the Porsche Boxster and despite that in the Z the steering wheel isn't adjustable vertically AND in depth, they couldn't find many faults in it. It delivered the same performance figures but apparently lacked the 'punch' of the Porsche but was better equipped and 13000 pounds less !

This, I believe is where the 350Z starts to resemble the 240 - sheer value for money, euro or pound for the equivalent, the performance (how the power is delivered) and equipment level per monetaryt unit is second to none ! Just like our old retro friend from the '70s. If people don't but it, it's because they don't trust the Nissan badge ! All we need now is for Nissan to win a class at Le Mans (like Audi) or like Datsun with the rallys and the sales will rocket.

Homebrew, what would you do to improve the performance then ? Yours as standard wasn't powerful enough for you but that didn't stop you buying it !

 

[Homebrew]

"Homebrew, what would you do to improve the performance then ? Yours as standard wasn't powerful enough for you but that didn't stop you buying it ! "



Well, I didn't buy my Z in standard form, it was already modded.
I would improve the performance of the 350 by putting 2 turbos on it for a start, that is what Nissan should of done, then maybe it would be powerfull enough for me. As for the 350's looks, suppose thats just personal tast, or lack of depending how you view it!