Samuri for sale at NEC

[Rob Gaskin]

The Samuri topic in general will run and run and to be honest after a few posts we just revert back into the same old discussion.

At the end of the day nothing gets sorted or made any clearer. As usual with Classic Cars (or any secondhand car really) the buyer has to make sure he knows what he is buying and why he is attracted to that particular car. I wouldn't spend £48k on a Classic Car that has had 'valued added' unless I was certain that value had been added.

Very often cars are sold at a 'premium' just because someone famous has owned them. To me that doesn't really add value but there again I don't understand the 'private number-plate' business either.

Sean, you showed interest in the Viva and wondered if it was a Brabham Viva, why? Because it was slightly different, mildly tuned and was associated with a famous name - just like a Samuri. So perhaps that explains why people are prepared to pay more for a Samuri. However if a Viva was painted to look like a Brabham Viva that is different.

I don't know if the Samuri at the NEC was a genuine car and indeed if was any better for having a Samuri 'certificate' but what I do know is that I wouldn't have paid £48k for it. The car 'looked' very good on the pictures but in my mind I could only value it as a good 'restored' 240Z. I believe it had issues but I've no idea what they were or whether they were obvious to a Datsun Z 'first timer'.

There are lots of people around who don't know how to get a return on money that would previously have been invested in other ways. They are affecting Classic Car values and indeed turning most Classic Car discussions around so that we now talk about value rather than enjoyment. To be honest I am the same these days, I used to enjoy my track car as a fun drive, I now look at my 240Zs as investments - sad. But I am a massive Datsun Z enthsiast and I can't believe how much time I spend thinking, talking and writing about Datsuns - it's ridiculous really.

I'm sure prices will drop again and so I would not spend any more than £20k on a 'nice' 240Z. Having said that I wouldn't sell either on my cars for that much so I'm a hypocrite in some ways.

 

[SeanDezart]

Sean, you showed interest in the Viva and wondered if it was a Brabham Viva, why? Because it was slightly different, mildly tuned and was associated with a famous name - just like a Samuri. So perhaps that explains why people are prepared to pay more for a Samuri. However if a Viva was painted to look like a Brabham Viva that is different.

I'm sure prices will drop again and so I would not spend any more than £20k on a 'nice' 240Z. Having said that I wouldn't sell either on my cars for that much so I'm a hypocrite in some ways.

You could have been right Rob and I accept your point anyway - the only reason is that we had a lookalike (a white GT with a black bonnet ?) when I was very young.

I received this from someone privately who doesn't want to publicly 'argue' :

"Samuri bashing? ...it's a sad state of affairs that folk can not accept that despite its shortcoming and agricultural execution ( compared to modern day), there is a "brand" when the name samuri and Datsun is mentioned. Hence they command a premium in the open market place.
Yes we can all build better, faster, more advanced zeds for less money but that's missing the point."

I don't agree Rob - prices'll never drop ! And didn't you regret selling your previous one for (£15k ?) ? Now the bareme is £20k but imho you're still £10k down on the reality and the market is proving me right.

 

[Alphabettispaghetti]

If there is a brand it's just getting diluted and run down by the cars, not the people, the murky waters of numbers and lack of details, information and new barn finds.

Nothing is happening, or seems to be to build on the 'brand' or enlighten.

 

[SeanDezart]

All adds to the romanticism.

And a brand doesn't need to be 'happening' - what about Donnington ?

Build and enlighten the brand ? What do you mean and expect to 'happen' ? There is a book - you want a t-shirt ?

"Sam-me !"

 

[STEVE BURNS]

IMHO I feel that we will never be truthfully enlighten as the only possible recorded details that might have been found written on scraps of old paper that may have been kept at Silverstone would have probably been swept up by the last person there in an attempt to tidy the whole place up prior to the units closure

 

[Rob Gaskin]

..............I don't agree Rob - prices'll never drop ! And didn't you regret selling your previous one for (£15k ?) ? Now the bareme is £20k but imho you're still £10k down on the reality and the market is proving me right.

I think the market generally is artificially high Sean because of the very very low 'interest rate'. Prices did fall following the financial 'crash' of 2009 Sean.

My 20k figure was what I would pay not the 'going rate'. I think people on here generally would pay less than a speculator or a Datsun Z novice. Hence why many cars are not advertised on here. Just my perception that's all.

I sold my old track car for £6.5k Sean. I could find lots of fault with it and so based the price on what I could break it for. I sold it for a fair price but many would have asked (and may be got) twice that. It's performance was greater than the sum of it's parts actually and it was hard to assess it other than a reasonably quick and reliable track car.

 

[SeanDezart]

I think the market generally is artificially high Sean because of the very very low 'interest rate'. Prices did fall following the financial 'crash' of 2009 Sean.

My 20k figure was what I would pay not the 'going rate'. I think people on here generally would pay less than a speculator or a Datsun Z novice. Hence why many cars are not advertised on here. Just my perception that's all.

I sold my old track car for £6.5k Sean. I could find lots of fault with it and so based the price on what I could break it for. I sold it for a fair price but many would have asked (and may be got) twice that. It's performance was greater than the sum of it's parts actually and it was hard to assess it other than a reasonably quick and reliable track car.

So Rob, you're betting that prices will drop...when and under what circumstances ?

Cars are not advertised here for various reasons and perhaps Steve's new classifieds section might help that turn around.

So what is your idea of the 'going rate' please ?

I believe that your seriously underestimated the value of your car but that was your choice, no regrets and let's move on however, the car would falsify any average selling price just as that red early car on Ebay would.....if it sells for £40k - they are both extremes.

I'm not sure overall that people are buying ordinary 240Zs to make money, merely that people are going to mothball the more expensive contempories (911s, E-Types) etc and want a 'cheaper' classic run-around great-looking coupé that happens to be rare also over here.
I don't believe that their prices will drop, even if those more expensive do - THEY will come more in line with relaity - a Zs needs to rise in order to do that.

 

[Mambofever]

Personally really happy the car went for good money.

Having Z's at the NEC will have boosted the cars stature in some collector's eyes. Adding to the current increased interest/prices in all the cars.

All publicity is good publicity.


Regardless of the ever increasing price tags of the cars, I will continue to daily the Sam in the summer, and track it when I can.

 

[richiep]

I don't agree Rob - prices'll never drop ! And didn't you regret selling your previous one for (£15k ?) ? Now the bareme is £20k but imho you're still £10k down on the reality and the market is proving me right.

People have said that before in the classic car market - and been handed their asses financially as a result when it crashed.

Plus Sean, sometimes I think your appreciation of value is influenced by the prices that these cars go for in France/on the continent. They are basically not worth as much here, most especially/specifically the LHD ones. I often see listings on the Euro Facebook group and think "yikes" price-wise, and that's not just for the cars, that's parts too.

We've been through all this before anyway. There's minimal market IN THE UK for cars above 30k for RHD, 20-25k for LHD. Unless its some of this Samuri silliness from people buying to enhance their investment portfolio.

 

[SeanDezart]

My eyes are wide open Richard and I'm wel,aware of the different factors pulling demand and prices in both the UK (for RH and MH cars) and in the real EU where frankly, a RH drive car isn't to be considered unless really inexpensive as per Rob's......unless we're talking JDM-specific models and they'd be outside the normal discuss and prices.

Minimal market - yes, but there always was because of a lack of decent cars, ignorance of the model and a perceived lack of available parts.

This club should be doing all it can to reverse that perception and cars at the NEC with approachable people for the public (rear potentiel owners) to talk with and be convinced can only be positive - I agree with Mr Mambo - any publicity is good publicity !

We'll see than with prices won't we but my money is 'up' and MZR seems to believe so as well and has put his money where his mouth is !

 

[richiep]

You are probably right Sean - up rather than down IS more likely. However, a lot can happen to change that, so I guess we'll have to see. I could see value growth in the UK lagging the continent, or seeing reinforcement of the two tiers - RHD UK cars going up, LHD stuck under a reinforced glass ceiling. One might also find that as the car prices rise stateside - and thus here - for the LHD imports, the market for them in the UK starts to slow - they are no longer a cheap way into Z ownership.

Of course, who knows what the Trumpfen-Fuhrer will do to the US economy and the value of the dollar over the next few years. If we haven't all been reduced to radioactive dust, you might be able to pick up a Z for the price of a loaf of bread soon!

It's all speculation anyway - it's a "sit back munching popcorn and enjoy the show" situation...

 

[Rob Gaskin]

Sean be honest what is the most YOU have paid for a car?

Steve asked us what we'd pay. I have paid £20k.

My track car was advertised on here (2012 I think) and no-one was interested. On Pistonheads it got some interest but only one person made an offer (blind). It would not have made a smart roadcar. I knew the car inside out Sean.

 

[SeanDezart]

Sean be honest what is the most YOU have paid for a car?

Steve asked us what we'd pay. I have paid £20k.

My track car was advertised on here (2012 I think) and no-one was interested. On Pistonheads it got some interest but only one person made an offer (blind). It would not have made a smart roadcar. I knew the car inside out Sean.

Let's see some others speak up here please.

I'm not telling you on here what each of my 240Zs have cost me - I've never bought a car 'finished' unless you want to know what I paid for my green one back in '89 but that began a restoration a little over 12 months later.

A car doesn't have to be a smart road-car to have value Rob.

 

[Al Douglas]

Al......: not on the register and Duncan's, arhem, 'absence' means unable to confirm what he knows.......a shame then that the register is not being kept up to date.

Al.

Three factors have encouraged comments :

the absence of The Z Farm...hardly leaving a positive wake behind
an awfull, unedited and uninvestigated auction write-up
the absence of the car on the Samuri register

Hopefully, the register angle might soon be covered followed by communication via the auction houses to encourage future write-ups to be factually correct.

For some reason I missed this post,
you say that things encouraged comments and yet I know for a fact that you were aware that Spike had agreed provenance on the car before anyone else and yet you decided not to share this information!
I shared as soon as I knew but apparently you had been in touch with him via email.
Why hold back that info, even if you had doubts? It was information that wasn't out there at the time but was relevant.
I defer back to my comments to Rob, I thought we were involved in this forum to help, inform, encourage!
Can't be arsed with agendas!!!!

 

[Al Douglas]

should also say that I have had several emails from guys expressing the same thoughts. Too much **** going on!!!

 

[SeanDezart]

Can't be arsed with agendas!!!!

I have none - simply that the cars warrant an up to date register which'll help everyone - do you not agree ?