S85 V10 Swap - Is it possible

racer

Club Member
Ian what about the current shape m3 V8 engine? Find a smashed up manual car cheap and then you have the 6six speed allready. I know it's not the V10 your lusting after but almost as good (414 bhp standard). Desmogged with tuning I'm sure 450 would be achievable.
 

GTR-240Z

Well-Known Forum User
As John has mentioned this engine is on my list of engine swaps for my next zed project. I've done some research so here is my take on issues you may face.

1, The sump has 2 humped areas with the rack/cross member fitting between these on an M5/M6. Your going to need to get measurements to be sure the cross member and rack from a zed will fit in this space between the humps. If it fouls the rear one you could tweak the sump but the front one which it more likely to hit will be difficult as that also houses the oil pump and oil is pulled from this sump to the rear one.
2, If your lucky just the rack will be in the way so you could re-engineer the steering to the back of the cross member and change the steering knuckles/suspension etc accordingly. But you would need to change to a rack that is meant to be on the rear of the cross member and move the tension rods etc. Your would probably end up switching to something like the S13 or similar complete front suspension/rack which is a project in itself.
3,As already identified the steering shaft may need some work to clear the exhaust you would not really know until that engine is in there
4, Gearbox mounts would need to be fabricated, gearbox may fit in standard tunnel, but you would need to alter the floor on either side for exhaust clearance much like what Tel has done on his M3 conversion but you would need to do on both sides of the floors.
5, Clutch and brake master cylinders may get in way of engine so may need to move them.
6, Standard ecu is an impressive piece of kit but going to be very difficult if not impossible to get working in a zed. Not many standalones could run this engine until recently I was only really aware of one the Pectel SQ12M which i've seen figures of £5000+ for ecu packages!. Apparently the Specialist Components Tornado 2 ecu now also supports the S85 and those ECU look to be more like the £1k figure. Both ECU's will run with standard engine sensors and base maps also exist.
7, Will need supporting mods like diff, driveshafts, prop, uprated stubs, brakes, fuel system.
8, If you lucky and body modifications are minimal then excluding supporting mods you could probably get the S85, Tornado 2 ECU, E90 M3 gearbox etc for £15k. I'm probably mad enought to spend this on an engine for an old Datsun many would not.
9, No real support from anybody else thats done the swap, very little documentation etc but that E46 M3 done by track culture helps and there are e30 boys who have done that swap.

If you can get measurements of that engine and in particular the sump, and feel confident in doing the swap I say do it.
 

SeanDezart

Well-Known Forum User
Just shows then that it's Axis power that wins the day :D although I haven't see too many Italian conversions, GTO kits excepted...mind you, they were hardly in it really.....:unsure:

Allies.....one Jag V12 conversion, several Rover V8s, some Chevys and at least one red F**d engined Z.........others ?

Whatever happened to the LS V8 conversions, I seem to remember only one planned from Steve into a 280Z 2 seater, crated engine/box received but no news since...

Do we go then for cheap and available - is THAT the prerequisite for engine conversions ?
 

astroboy

Well-Known Forum User
As John has mentioned this engine is on my list of engine swaps for my next zed project. I've done some research so here is my take on issues you may face.

1, The sump has 2 humped areas with the rack/cross member fitting between these on an M5/M6. Your going to need to get measurements to be sure the cross member and rack from a zed will fit in this space between the humps. If it fouls the rear one you could tweak the sump but the front one which it more likely to hit will be difficult as that also houses the oil pump and oil is pulled from this sump to the rear one.
2, If your lucky just the rack will be in the way so you could re-engineer the steering to the back of the cross member and change the steering knuckles/suspension etc accordingly. But you would need to change to a rack that is meant to be on the rear of the cross member and move the tension rods etc. Your would probably end up switching to something like the S13 or similar complete front suspension/rack which is a project in itself.
3,As already identified the steering shaft may need some work to clear the exhaust you would not really know until that engine is in there
4, Gearbox mounts would need to be fabricated, gearbox may fit in standard tunnel, but you would need to alter the floor on either side for exhaust clearance much like what Tel has done on his M3 conversion but you would need to do on both sides of the floors.
5, Clutch and brake master cylinders may get in way of engine so may need to move them.
6, Standard ecu is an impressive piece of kit but going to be very difficult if not impossible to get working in a zed. Not many standalones could run this engine until recently I was only really aware of one the Pectel SQ12M which i've seen figures of £5000+ for ecu packages!. Apparently the Specialist Components Tornado 2 ecu now also supports the S85 and those ECU look to be more like the £1k figure. Both ECU's will run with standard engine sensors and base maps also exist.
7, Will need supporting mods like diff, driveshafts, prop, uprated stubs, brakes, fuel system.
8, If you lucky and body modifications are minimal then excluding supporting mods you could probably get the S85, Tornado 2 ECU, E90 M3 gearbox etc for £15k. I'm probably mad enought to spend this on an engine for an old Datsun many would not.
9, No real support from anybody else thats done the swap, very little documentation etc but that E46 M3 done by track culture helps and there are e30 boys who have done that swap.

If you can get measurements of that engine and in particular the sump, and feel confident in doing the swap I say do it.

You've certainly thought about this in great depth.
Like I've said before, it would be fantastic to see this happen.
Personally, for me, it would be too much to take on as I'd prefer something more out of the box instead.

So it goes back to the opening poster's question.

"Is it possible" ?

Seems very possible! Make it happen gents.
 

astroboy

Well-Known Forum User
I've just found a video of the V10 inside an E30.

I'm sure the S30's engine bay is larger than an E30's??

Btw, this thing shifts!

[YOUTUBE]http://youtu.be/7AsSWcxydqc[/YOUTUBE]
 

mark240z

Well-Known Forum User
I don't see what all the fuss is about with everyone banging on about money, so what it might cost a lot I'm 24 and spent just under £14,000 on my 240 and its nowhere near finished, bearing in mind I got the car for free and I've estimated that its probily going to cost me in total £50,000 give or take a couple of grand I enjoy spending my money on it and hopefully have a bomb spec 550bhp 240z, so let the man carry on
 

Rob Gaskin

Treasurer
Staff member
Site Administrator
Well it all depends on whether you want to drive your Z or work on it.

The car drives and looks good - just like Datsun Dave's did before he went the Skyline route.

Johnny Palmer did a quick job on his 240Z and has had great results.

Terry has started with a bare shell so nothing lost and he has his other 240Z to play with.

But it's Ian's decision of course, it will certainly make a good topic on here.

Mark £50k - wow that's serious money. In my mind you have got to NEED to do something to spend that sort of money on anything or have a lot to spare.
 
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I don't see what all the fuss is about with everyone banging on about money, so what it might cost a lot I'm 24 and spent just under £14,000 on my 240 and its nowhere near finished, bearing in mind I got the car for free and I've estimated that its probily going to cost me in total £50,000 give or take a couple of grand I enjoy spending my money on it and hopefully have a bomb spec 550bhp 240z, so let the man carry on


£50k!?! Thats a big chunk of cash, even to southerners on here:D

You've got to love it to be willing to loose 50+% of it if you want to sell it at some point.

I think the point is that its easy to think an engine costs A, an ecu costs B and the little bits cost C, so A+B+C= a finished car. As i'm sure you're aware its more like A+B+C= about a 1/4 of the cost, not to mention time.
 

datsun dave

Club Member
£50k!?! Thats a big chunk of cash, even to southerners on here:D

You've got to love it to be willing to loose 50+% of it if you want to sell it at some point.

I think the point is that its easy to think an engine costs A, an ecu costs B and the little bits cost C, so A+B+C= a finished car. As i'm sure you're aware its more like A+B+C= about a 1/4 of the cost, not to mention time.


People think that you have to have very deep pockets to do the hybrid engine conversion I bet mine all in Inc buying the car cost a lot less than some standard 240z up for sale on EBay today.
 

SeanDezart

Well-Known Forum User
People think that you have to have very deep pockets to do the hybrid engine conversion I bet mine all in Inc buying the car cost a lot less than some standard 240z up for sale on EBay today.

But how much had she cost you before that and therefore in total ?;)
 

Ian

Club Member
However to fit a huge, complex and expensive engine like this just seems way OTT to me.
Because sometimes working on a car project can be as fun and interesting as driving it (almost)


I know your car Ian and it's a very smart 'usable now' classic. Why give yourself so much work and grief?

If you want more power fit a modified 2.8 into it - that will go straight in and not require extensive transmission upgrades.
Because I've been hit with the modding bug and its hard to get rid off. Some of my favourite cars are ones that were crazy project but turned out to be very special and different rather than something that came straight from the factory.



You are probably just 'poking us with a stick' anyway, surely :)
Just seeing whats possible and if its possible for me at this point in my life.



TBH, I think dropping a V10 M5 engine conversion would just cost way too much and it will need to be funded by a middle eastern prince.
Hmmm , perhaps I can convince my boss to fund it, he'll never notice it missing from his billions. Nah, that will never happen, but I can dream.





At the same time as advising, we should also welcome people undertaking Z challenges although I wonder where the S30 chassis is lpower-limited for +80% road use......?

300bhp ?
350 ?
400
+400 ?
350 - 400 is surely no problem if done correctly, after that how much power you can run on the road I suppose really comes down to how much money you have and how mad you are willing to go in altering the car.

If I were to do this the car would be seam welded, have stronger chassis rails installed with subframe connectors, a rear (or possibly full) cage and if deemed nessesary bracing in other odd areas.




I'd like to see some of the big bhp cars put on a jig to see how much the cars do twist.
If the chassis is reinforced properly I can't see it being very much.




Ian what about the current shape m3 V8 engine? Find a smashed up manual car cheap and then you have the 6six speed allready. I know it's not the V10 your lusting after but almost as good (414 bhp standard). Desmogged with tuning I'm sure 450 would be achievable.
Thats a very valid suggestion, however for me I have to consider an engine to be very special in order for me to move away from a nicely tuned L6. I'd consider an RB26DETT to be special and the S85 V10 also bit not the current M3 engine.





As John has mentioned this engine is on my list of engine swaps for my next zed project. I've done some research so here is my take on issues you may face.

1, The sump has 2 humped areas with the rack/cross member fitting between these on an M5/M6. Your going to need to get measurements to be sure the cross member and rack from a zed will fit in this space between the humps. If it fouls the rear one you could tweak the sump but the front one which it more likely to hit will be difficult as that also houses the oil pump and oil is pulled from this sump to the rear one.
2, If your lucky just the rack will be in the way so you could re-engineer the steering to the back of the cross member and change the steering knuckles/suspension etc accordingly. But you would need to change to a rack that is meant to be on the rear of the cross member and move the tension rods etc. Your would probably end up switching to something like the S13 or similar complete front suspension/rack which is a project in itself.
3,As already identified the steering shaft may need some work to clear the exhaust you would not really know until that engine is in there
4, Gearbox mounts would need to be fabricated, gearbox may fit in standard tunnel, but you would need to alter the floor on either side for exhaust clearance much like what Tel has done on his M3 conversion but you would need to do on both sides of the floors.
5, Clutch and brake master cylinders may get in way of engine so may need to move them.
6, Standard ecu is an impressive piece of kit but going to be very difficult if not impossible to get working in a zed. Not many standalones could run this engine until recently I was only really aware of one the Pectel SQ12M which i've seen figures of £5000+ for ecu packages!. Apparently the Specialist Components Tornado 2 ecu now also supports the S85 and those ECU look to be more like the £1k figure. Both ECU's will run with standard engine sensors and base maps also exist.
7, Will need supporting mods like diff, driveshafts, prop, uprated stubs, brakes, fuel system.
8, If you lucky and body modifications are minimal then excluding supporting mods you could probably get the S85, Tornado 2 ECU, E90 M3 gearbox etc for £15k. I'm probably mad enought to spend this on an engine for an old Datsun many would not.
9, No real support from anybody else thats done the swap, very little documentation etc but that E46 M3 done by track culture helps and there are e30 boys who have done that swap.

If you can get measurements of that engine and in particular the sump, and feel confident in doing the swap I say do it.
Thanks for your help and suggestions, I;ll try and look into all that when deciding what to do.

1. - Pretty sure it won't hit the rear sump which then leaves the hard task of altering it to clear if it fouls the front rack.

4. - Not a huge problem as long as it wouldn't need huge alterations which would take up loads of space in the cabin.

5. - This would be easily sorted.

6. - ECU won't be a problem but will be a HUGE expense

7. - Not a problem, these will be done anyway

8. I'm also mad enouth to spend £15k on a Datsun, if I could do this conversion for less than £20k then I'd probably do it, but not sure thats going to be possible

9. - Would definitly be good to get in touch with someone who has done this into another platform.




So it goes back to the opening poster's question.

"Is it possible" ?

Seems very possible! Make it happen gents.
Its definitly possibly, the question for me is, is it possible for me at the moment.






I've just found a video of the V10 inside an E30.

Btw, this thing shifts!
It sure does, check out the video vs theFerrari 360 to see how quickly it leaves that behind.





I don't see what all the fuss is about with everyone banging on about money, so what it might cost a lot I'm 24 and spent just under £14,000 on my 240 and its nowhere near finished, bearing in mind I got the car for free and I've estimated that its probily going to cost me in total £50,000 give or take a couple of grand I enjoy spending my money on it and hopefully have a bomb spec 550bhp 240z, so let the man carry on
I guess it all comes down to peoples own opinions on whats a lot of money to spend on a car and how much money they have available,




People think that you have to have very deep pockets to do the hybrid engine conversion I bet mine all in Inc buying the car cost a lot less than some standard 240z up for sale on EBay today.
Depends on what hybrid conversion though :)





I'm still looking into this, I want to look into all the possibilites before I decide which route to go down - S85 V10, RB26DETT, highly tuned L28,29,30.

Its looking like I may not be able to do this V10 conversion yet although thats not fully decided untill I check it out fully. I don't mind spending loads on the car (as I don't intend on selling it) but there does have to be a limit as I have other things to think about and I also don't fancy having the car off the road for many years as I need (or rather want) to drive it. If however I don't go ahead with this now I will in the future as a long term project which I don't mind spending 3 - 4 years on. It might be in a another 260Z or possibly in an E30 M3 as I've always liked them.
 
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