Nufzed now Sumo with the Sprintex: Start and run

Hub280ZX

Well-Known Forum User
Merci Monsieur SKiddell! :)

We tried to do our best with Martin at Traction Garage for the wiring, but we faced the usual prototype assemblies where plugs for components were not always appropriate!
The issue is now re-checked and modified accordingly, so I hope the basic problems are solved.

My mistake was to introduce corrections in the boost scale corrections instead of the basic map. The situation is now that the two are way off, and I would prefer to have a restart from something more oriented to the L28.

I know that Emerald will do the job. It is not excluded that I spend a trip to UK for a rolling road session with them, but I would like first to know my configuration better so that we then target the real optimisation of it.

Thanks for your proposal to email some info, and please tell me what injectors output you use at what pressure. (MP with mail adress)

I'll keep you posted about my mistakes and learning curve...
 

Hub280ZX

Well-Known Forum User
Back from holidays with a 240Z and much pleasure drive during the 1500 miles! :)

Funny enough, it is somethimes necessary to have some rest leaving the Sumo project sideways, and when you come back to it, you have a much better view on what is to be done...!

So, I changed a poor connection on triple coils as the drivers of the ECU were giving power for sparks that never occured eratically.
Beside this, I changed the plugged lambda probe on which the heater was dead, and I have a good signal for AFR ratios.
I took sometime to look and study the maps from Steve, and even if they could not be used as is, it gave me some good indication on what was wrong on mines.

I then had a few runs since mid-last week, and the things are getting much better!
No more black puffs at the back, and AFR's staying between 13.5 and 15.5
Still improvements to make (I wonder if it will ever be "finished"), but the car is now drivable on the road, and I cannot really test the high end until next track session.

This will be on the 5th of September on a local track, followed with another session on September 27, and a final track day at Magny-Cours on 13 of October!

Plenty of news to come with the results... if the tires are standing the torque and the power!! :D
 

racer

Club Member
Great to see your making some headway Hubert. Don't forget to show us some photo's of your trackday or, even better a video!
 

Hub280ZX

Well-Known Forum User
And if the Sprintex was dead....?

I had a heavy program since beginning of September, both on the working side and on the Sumo side. Here is the summary of what happened:

Beginning of september, I was back on the mapping process, and this time, I had a separate approach between the engine atmo requirements and the extra fuel required for the supercharger boost. That was giving me a better "unmixed" result, and it will prove to be the right approach.

Some road testing with the usual limitations due to safety and license points, and I was ready for the track session on 5 of September with the local oldies club from Reims. A nice warm dry day, where Clairlady (my daughter) had a lot of fun drive with the Roadster 2000, showing some who did not knew her what she was capable of doing. My side with the Sumo was not as good, as even with cleaning and drying the connections on the supercharger tubing under pressure, I drove about 15 minutes (to get the right feeling about the improvements!)... and the pressure was off again. I spent the day putting back the tubing, getting the conviction that this time, something serious had to be done about it!

Back home, I had two week-ends to solve the matter, and i decided to take all tubings out, and have welded rings made on each tubing end. Then the collars had a stop for the slip, and this was good for the tubing that could be welded. The 4 remaining pressure connections were:
Sprintex outlet, intercooler inlet, intercooler outlet, and throttle inlet.
Aluminium tubing on all parts, so not possible to make easy rings by welding. I decided to implement springs or hooks that would physically hold the tubings in place. I could not find springs, so I placed hooks with the right tension on each of them, and this time, I was really safe on that pressure problem.

Second track day on 27 of September, this time with the Road Runner Club having modern and old cars, and quite a number of members from the Renault techno center where Sylv1 is working (thanks to him for the proposal!). That day was absolutely awfull! We drove in the morning, lowering speed on the motorway, as driving 60 miles an hour was like in a swimmingpool! Very instructive driving, of course, as now I had the power, but the pouring rain was making the experience as driving on ice... Spins? I do not remember, but many for all of us!! I then realized that my tires being ...mmm? 10/12 years old, what was correct on the dry was just hopeless on the wet (with rivers of rain through the tarmac!!) So, back home safe, but without any possibility to push whatsoever: the car was sliding sideways on third gear acceleration on the staright part of the track!

Third trackday was planned for 13 of October in Magny Cours, so the car was ready, and there was not much to do... but just hope that the rain would not kill the day as it did on the last session...

Start on the Friday for 400 km, with Clairlady pulling the trailer and the Roadster 2000, and me driving the Sumo... 200 km with half under the rain, but I had new R888 tires fitted, so the feeling was better. Due to the wet tarmac and the new tires, I did not drove faster than 100 km/h, so a slow 70 miles/h...
Suddenly, I had a vibration as when you roll over those thick rough paint marks on the road, and that was lasting only a few seconds, then back to normal. Another 15 km, and then some metal parts were loose under the bonnet, fell on the road bumping under the car body... and silence... ?? I suddenly realized that the typical Sprintex noise was gone, and looking at the pressure gage, accelerating of not, the pressure was staying 0 or negative under vacuum when throttle was closed! I could not stop safely along the motorway, so we stopped at the petrol sation that was some three kilometer further.

The good news is that the mapping basically switched to atmo management without extra pressure, and the car was running fine... only with the push lost when opening the throttle. The bad news is that by opening the boot, there was no belt nor pulley on the Sprintex shaft! GONE!!

No spare pulley, and no assembly parts: I could not use the sapre belt! We had a coffee to discus the situation: Back home was two hours, but no parts ready there either, and four more hours to reach Magny Cours with anoter car... or just continue and have the session as atmo 280ZX? We choose the second option, and I installed the management PC with the Emerald software running showing and recording the Lambda value to keep safe (First experience to run the car atmo). The map was OK, and I did not required any adjustment for the rest of the drive, the track session, and the drive back home.

The shaft of the Sprintex is siezed (or the inside screws are blocked, or the gears/roll bearings are seriously damaged). The plan is to disassemble this coming week-end to have a look inside and check the situation. The sprintex oil was down when the Sprintex stopped, and the Sprintex temperature was high. Driving in the rain was no trouble until now, and the outside temperature was much lower than on June/July and september drives. I have no real history about this Sprintex S-102, aprt from being 30 years old, and previously used on two cars for carb pressure feeding. I drove some 7500 miles since the restart of the Sumo, and this should not be significant for the sprintex life... but it all depends on the consequences having stayed 10 (?) years without running.

I will open it and se what I can see... Sprintex Australia is giving me no answer to my questions about spares (Mark Ambrosius who gave me the data for the oil tank, level, and oil type to be used is silent). I suppose that asking spares for a 1980 model will be hopeless...

The originality of the car was the supercharger approach. I was having no problem with the engine and the mapping with my slow and secure approach. The Sprintex is supposely dead, and I am left with some options: Forget about the car, turn it back to turbo (but this means a lot of changes), or spend another...?? to have a new supercharger fitted. I will need some time to decide, but winter is coming and leaves some time to decide. I do not imagine to find another (good condition) S-102 model, as those are rare units... probably deeply sleeping under rusting boots...

The reality is sad, specially when I do not understand what could be wrong apart from the Sprintex itself, and even after a year of test drive and management approach...If the engine had blown, I would know that I was wrong on the mapping, but there...??

Sorry to give you those news, but you and I knew that it was not the easy project, and failures can occur. Should I swap the engine for a SL55 AMG with supercharger...?:D
 

johnymd

Club Member
Really sorry to hear this news. Have you had it stripped and checked yet. Maybe it can be repaired?
 

Hub280ZX

Well-Known Forum User
Thanks John. Will be done this week-end, and I will post pictures to share opinions on possible repair. Need to find why it failed!
 

Hub280ZX

Well-Known Forum User
Disassembly of the sprintex supercharger done.

Fist, I find some aluminium particles in the outlet tube of the supercharger, but all seems dry without any oil.

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I then turned the sprintex to have a look on the screws, and the view is just bad!!! .............
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The ends of the screws on the gear side have melted, with some pasty aluminium transferred from one srew top to the other screw valley. That was making an instant welding, and the two screws are solid one with the other.

I then opened the gears side to have a look. It's clean and some oil left, but not much.....
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Conclusion:
The lubrication oil had a leak on the tank connection tube to the gears. The theoritical level went down, and the bearings started to heat up. the heat is first transferred to the screw steel axis, and then to the aluminium screws. The melting of aluminium temperature reached, the screws start to become pasty, and some material can shear from one to the other when soft. This happened and blocked the screws. the vibrating noise that I feel for a few seconds in the car was the pulley stopped and the belt sliding on it. then the pulley went away with the belt.

Finally, everything explains what happened: Lack of reliability on the tubing and external tank of oil for gears and bearings lubrication.

Looking at actual systems, I better understand why the oil is enclosed in the gears section, and you are required to change the oil eventually, but there is no risk of external tank and tube.
I also understand better why some superchargers have a cooling section in this critical area, with water circulation for cooling.

I have recieved confirmation that parts are not avaliable anymore for this model at Sprintex...

If someone knows where there is one unit sleeping into a TVR or Ford as some were having this old supercharger, let me know! If I cannot find a spare in good condition, I will see if I consider changing it for a modern recent one...
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Rob Gaskin

Treasurer
Staff member
Site Administrator
That's a real shame Hebert, I hope you find a economical solution. The Supercharger is so central to the character of your car.

Will it be quieter when it is running with oil ;)

Is the large gear cracked too, it looks like it on the picture?

Also could aluminium bits have entered the engine now? You did say that it ran ok after the siezure, so hopefully not.

Good luck - keep us informed please.
 

racer

Club Member
Hi Hubert, sorry to see you've had some bad luck with the car.
Perhaps it's time to move on to something a bit more modern that has available spares.
I believe your engine was built to a low compression spec that would be ideal for turbo charging?
The potential for much higher horsepower would be nice! :devil:
 

Hub280ZX

Well-Known Forum User
Thanks jonbills, but the Sprintex on Ebay is having a long nose. Even more difficult to fit on the car...

Rob, It was running with oil when you heard it, and probably the leak occured some minutes before the trouble... not making more nose! :unsure:
Large gear is not cracked, just a mark (from the stay unused for years?)
As the compressed air had to cool through the intercoler, and only after that enter the throttle, I do not expect any trouble on the engine. I drove the track day and the drive back as atmo without trouble (450 miles).

Racer, it is possible to go the turbo line, but the originality of the project was to find something interesting with a supercharger...Not the easy side, but I like it when not simple! I will read your insperation... and maybe I change my mind!

Franky, you have understood the philosophy, and yes, this is a possibility to go for some more modern supercharger... If the game is to target 1 bar with a turbo, I am sure that the result with a supercharger at 1 bar would be really impressive...

The project is not over... I just need some digestion of the situation!
Thanks for your comments, it helps ;)
 

Hub280ZX

Well-Known Forum User
what are the dimensions of that unit? how long is the nose?

The supercharger has no nose. I can take the exact dimensions tomorrow. It is a rectangular block with inlet from the back and compressed air on the left side looking at the pulley.
Example of actual Sprintex similar to old version (but different dimensions): In my car, installed as top right drawing, but pulley down.


sprintex_s5_150_supercharger_diagram.gif
 
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