MSA 6 to 1 headers any good?

Robotsan

Club Member
I've watched a lot of US youtube videos of cars with the MSA 6 into 1 headers installed, and to me at least, they all sound great. I don't know if its just my imagination or not, but they all seem to have certain high-pitched scream to them compared to other systems. I haven't scientifically tested this (maybe I need to watch all the videos of the 6 into 2 headers too!), and there's obviously other factors at play like different mufflers, even different engines, carbs etc.. but I just feel like there's a pattern with the 6-1 cars?

Evidence:






https://youtu.be/l_8mZIu435U

Then I saw the prices.. Seems almost too good to be true? Headers for $275 (for a '76 280z) and the rest of the system for $288? Obviously shipping is crazy - $1100 they quoted, but I got a quote from STS imports for $190, and that was to ship 2 lots of the above as I've been discussing splitting the shipment with another person. So would cost me personally £775 all in.

At that price it seems great.. but I have seen quite a few comments from searching the forum regarding the quality/fitment of the MSA stuff, and a bit of droning? Would it be a bit of a risk, or worth doing at this price? Is the droning due to the MSA backbox more than anything? Would that be sorted by adding a ZStory JDM box at a later date? Surely there'd be takers for a used MSA system too?

The plan was originally to go full ZStory but with the next batch not shipping until December, and if these MSA 6-1 headers really do sound as good as I think, I'm tempted to do this. I can always upgrade the rest to ZStory later.

Any advice duly welcomed.
 

richiep

Club Member
MSA 6-1 - do they offer a performance improvement over standard? Yes. Are they a serious performance option? No. Is there a droning with them combined with the MSA exhaust system? Yes. There is also a torque flat spot around 3000-4000rpm if I remember rightly (without checking up on the rev range) that is real. I had an MSA 6-1 on my car before the Fujitsubo, and the torque hole was there to see on the dyno graph. It disappeared once the FGK system was fitted.

The core performance issue is the flat spot results from the 6-1 design. The L-series performs best when a 6-2 design is utilised (and not the MSA one!) with a JDM-style twin pipe or a Y-pipe that tapers into one around the mid-gearbox area (some of the JDM twin systems have a crossover box for the two pipes in the middle serving a similar purpose). This is reflected in Sean's exhaust designs and has been dyno-proven.

Flange thickness is less of an issue with the MSA these days compared to 20 years ago as they thickened the flange up. However, personally, I'd save your money and look at more serious options. E.G. Fujitsubo's Super EX. you can always get a system made locally to work with it if you don't want to drop all the cash on the LegalisR exhaust that goes with it.


Yes, its a lot more money, but you get what you pay for. I'd stick with the standard cast iron L28 manifold over the MSA tbh and have a nice stainless system made by JP Exhausts in Congleton. They did one for the Celica to the specs I wanted for 600 quid. If you wanted the twin pipe look, there are other sources in Japan for such a backbox if Sean hasn't any in stock. Or get one from Sean and have JP use it. Just have a system made with a decently long y-pipe and your choice of back box to make it sound good.

The other point is a tubular manifold isn't going to do much for you performance/breathing-wise if the engine is standard. Flow out needs flow in so to speak...
 
As above, the Fujitsubo is the only Dyno developed system in that price point. We’ll worth the bit extra it might cost. It’ll also arrive after paying your money out.
 

Robotsan

Club Member
MSA 6-1 - do they offer a performance improvement over standard? Yes. Are they a serious performance option? No. Is there a droning with them combined with the MSA exhaust system? Yes. There is also a torque flat spot around 3000-4000rpm if I remember rightly (without checking up on the rev range) that is real. I had an MSA 6-1 on my car before the Fujitsubo, and the torque hole was there to see on the dyno graph. It disappeared once the FGK system was fitted.

The core performance issue is the flat spot results from the 6-1 design. The L-series performs best when a 6-2 design is utilised (and not the MSA one!) with a JDM-style twin pipe or a Y-pipe that tapers into one around the mid-gearbox area (some of the JDM twin systems have a crossover box for the two pipes in the middle serving a similar purpose). This is reflected in Sean's exhaust designs and has been dyno-proven.

Flange thickness is less of an issue with the MSA these days compared to 20 years ago as they thickened the flange up. However, personally, I'd save your money and look at more serious options. E.G. Fujitsubo's Super EX. you can always get a system made locally to work with it if you don't want to drop all the cash on the LegalisR exhaust that goes with it.


Yes, its a lot more money, but you get what you pay for. I'd stick with the standard cast iron L28 manifold over the MSA tbh and have a nice stainless system made by JP Exhausts in Congleton. They did one for the Celica to the specs I wanted for 600 quid. If you wanted the twin pipe look, there are other sources in Japan for such a backbox if Sean hasn't any in stock. Or get one from Sean and have JP use it. Just have a system made with a decently long y-pipe and your choice of back box to make it sound good.

The other point is a tubular manifold isn't going to do much for you performance/breathing-wise if the engine is standard. Flow out needs flow in so to speak...

Thanks Richie, enlightening and useful as always.. And a big ol' dollop of realism.. So this is another case of you get what you pay for then. Gutted!

How much of a difference are we talking, performance wise? And I mean in real world terms, rather than on a dyno - did you really notice the power or torque difference when you switched to the Fujitsubo?

Those Fujitsubo headers/manifolds aren't too bad at £600 though. Is there a cheap way to ship them from japan, a la STS Imports?

I see it says for the JDM cars only - would it definitely fit a LHD 280z?

1658841074067.png

And then this is the matching twin pipe and twin muffler right?: https://www.rhdjapan.com/fujitsubo-legalis-r-exhaust-system-s30-gs30-hs30-hs30h.html

So about £1250 all in plus shipping.

I deffo want to get rid of the old iron manifold, to reduce weight and improve the looks of the engine bay. Would you say the Fujitsubo 6 to 2 or one of the Zstory manifolds are the best options then?
 

status

Well-Known Forum User
I had one on my 240 Z full system had no torque drop outs but that depends on wots been done as every engine is different
when new they sound really puuny and as you mentioned a bit high pitch ,in other words crap but they do get to sound better with age
 

richiep

Club Member
Thanks Richie, enlightening and useful as always.. And a big ol' dollop of realism.. So this is another case of you get what you pay for then. Gutted!

How much of a difference are we talking, performance wise? And I mean in real world terms, rather than on a dyno - did you really notice the power or torque difference when you switched to the Fujitsubo?

Those Fujitsubo headers/manifolds aren't too bad at £600 though. Is there a cheap way to ship them from japan, a la STS Imports?

I see it says for the JDM cars only - would it definitely fit a LHD 280z?

View attachment 52181

And then this is the matching twin pipe and twin muffler right?: https://www.rhdjapan.com/fujitsubo-legalis-r-exhaust-system-s30-gs30-hs30-hs30h.html

So about £1250 all in plus shipping.

I deffo want to get rid of the old iron manifold, to reduce weight and improve the looks of the engine bay. Would you say the Fujitsubo 6 to 2 or one of the Zstory manifolds are the best options then?
I'm biased - I've got a Fujitsubo. ;) Sean's stuff is also backordered, as he and others have documented, whereas you order a Fujitsubo and it will be with you in a week.
 

Albrecht

Well-Known Forum User
One thing to remember about Japanese and 'Japanese style' stacked twin-pipe exits is that they don't tuck up under the rear valance as well as on the earlier cars. The lower exhaust cut-out on the 280Z's rear valance leaves a lot more of the rear box exposed and it can look a little incongruous (to my eye anyway...).

Also be aware of what system you go for. Some of the earlier true twin-pipe systems (Fujitsubo/FGK, Trust, Spirit Garage etc) were not built to work around an R200 diff installation as seen on the 280Z (Japanese market S30/S31-series Zs never had R200 diffs) so they can cause fitment issues in that part of the car.
 

richiep

Club Member
One thing to remember about Japanese and 'Japanese style' stacked twin-pipe exits is that they don't tuck up under the rear valance as well as on the earlier cars. The lower exhaust cut-out on the 280Z's rear valance leaves a lot more of the rear box exposed and it can look a little incongruous (to my eye anyway...).

Also be aware of what system you go for. Some of the earlier true twin-pipe systems (Fujitsubo/FGK, Trust, Spirit Garage etc) were not built to work around an R200 diff installation as seen on the 280Z (Japanese market S30/S31-series Zs never had R200 diffs) so they can cause fitment issues in that part of the car.
This is a very good point I'd totally forgotten about (thanks Alan!). The exhaust cutout on the S31-era cars' valance is shallow compared to the earlier ones, and thus doesn't look as tucked. Not a deal breaker really but worth noting. This is what it looks like on later cars:
fujitsubo_EPU_S30-BIG2.jpg



The R200 issue might also mean you can't tuck the pipe up as high as would otherwise be the case with an R180, or maybe a mod would be required. Worth noting that the LegalisR exhaust was redesigned in the last year or two and is supposed to be a better fit overall than the previous version. Not sure how that will affect fit relative to an R200.
 

Robotsan

Club Member
This is a very good point I'd totally forgotten about (thanks Alan!). The exhaust cutout on the S31-era cars' valance is shallow compared to the earlier ones, and thus doesn't look as tucked. Not a deal breaker really but worth noting. This is what it looks like on later cars:
fujitsubo_EPU_S30-BIG2.jpg



The R200 issue might also mean you can't tuck the pipe up as high as would otherwise be the case with an R180, or maybe a mod would be required. Worth noting that the LegalisR exhaust was redesigned in the last year or two and is supposed to be a better fit overall than the previous version. Not sure how that will affect fit relative to an R200.

Thanks both. I'll try and find some more info on this - the backbox looks fine like that to me, but the situation with the diff sounds a bit more of an issue.
 

richiep

Club Member
The LegalisR on my red Z has quite a lot of clearance where it goes by the diff. In fact, it needs tucking up more; that is with an R180. Given the space, I'd say it'd be okay in its current position with an R200. It's just not as tucked as it could be.

As I said before, another option would be the SuperEX manifold and then have a custom 2-into-1 system made locally.
 

SeanDezart

Well-Known Forum User
The LegalisR on my red Z has quite a lot of clearance where it goes by the diff. In fact, it needs tucking up more; that is with an R180. Given the space, I'd say it'd be okay in its current position with an R200. It's just not as tucked as it could be.

Rich - can it be tucked up and if so, how please ?
 

SeanDezart

Well-Known Forum User
MSA 6-1 - do they offer a performance improvement over standard? Yes. Are they a serious performance option? No. Is there a droning with them combined with the MSA exhaust system? Yes. There is also a torque flat spot around 3000-4000rpm if I remember rightly (without checking up on the rev range) that is real. I had an MSA 6-1 on my car before the Fujitsubo, and the torque hole was there to see on the dyno graph. It disappeared once the FGK system was fitted.

The core performance issue is the flat spot results from the 6-1 design. The L-series performs best when a 6-2 design is utilised (and not the MSA one!) with a JDM-style twin pipe or a Y-pipe that tapers into one around the mid-gearbox area (some of the JDM twin systems have a crossover box for the two pipes in the middle serving a similar purpose). This is reflected in Sean's exhaust designs and has been dyno-proven.

Flange thickness is less of an issue with the MSA these days compared to 20 years ago as they thickened the flange up. However, personally, I'd save your money and look at more serious options. E.G. Fujitsubo's Super EX. you can always get a system made locally to work with it if you don't want to drop all the cash on the LegalisR exhaust that goes with it.


Yes, its a lot more money, but you get what you pay for. I'd stick with the standard cast iron L28 manifold over the MSA tbh and have a nice stainless system made by JP Exhausts in Congleton. They did one for the Celica to the specs I wanted for 600 quid. If you wanted the twin pipe look, there are other sources in Japan for such a backbox if Sean hasn't any in stock. Or get one from Sean and have JP use it. Just have a system made with a decently long y-pipe and your choice of back box to make it sound good.

The other point is a tubular manifold isn't going to do much for you performance/breathing-wise if the engine is standard. Flow out needs flow in so to speak...
Downpipe kits !
 

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Robotsan

Club Member
The LegalisR on my red Z has quite a lot of clearance where it goes by the diff. In fact, it needs tucking up more; that is with an R180. Given the space, I'd say it'd be okay in its current position with an R200. It's just not as tucked as it could be.

As I said before, another option would be the SuperEX manifold and then have a custom 2-into-1 system made locally.

Ah ok, thanks for clarifying Richie. I remember the noise from your exhaust hitting the road when you took me out in the red 240! 😂

A custom job does sound like a good plan to avoid any fitment issues I guess.

Would a true 2 pipe system all the way to the muffler be any better? Or too much with a stock engine?

Btw on that point you made before about needing more airflow in, as well as out, in order to benefit from a performance POV - would swapping my EFI gear for the twin SU carbs Mike has chucked in with the car make any difference there? Or would it need some porting etc too?
 
One thing to remember about Japanese and 'Japanese style' stacked twin-pipe exits is that they don't tuck up under the rear valance as well as on the earlier cars. The lower exhaust cut-out on the 280Z's rear valance leaves a lot more of the rear box exposed and it can look a little incongruous (to my eye anyway...).

Also be aware of what system you go for. Some of the earlier true twin-pipe systems (Fujitsubo/FGK, Trust, Spirit Garage etc) were not built to work around an R200 diff installation as seen on the 280Z (Japanese market S30/S31-series Zs never had R200 diffs) so they can cause fitment issues in that part of the car.

That’s a fair point! The Fujitsubo is designed for an r180 diff. It’ll be an easy thing to swap in.

If you’ve got two exhaust pipes on your silencer, it should have two pipes feeding it!

Quality is outstanding for the price. I also like the spirit garage system.
 

Robotsan

Club Member
That’s a fair point! The Fujitsubo is designed for an r180 diff. It’ll be an easy thing to swap in.

If you’ve got two exhaust pipes on your silencer, it should have two pipes feeding it!

Quality is outstanding for the price. I also like the spirit garage system.

Sorry, what do you mean it'll be an easy thing to swap in? Do you mean if fitting the Fujitsubo to a 240? Or 280? Or am I misunderstanding completely? 😂

Btw, your username makes me think of Arnold J Rimmer, is that what it's from?
 
Sorry, what do you mean it'll be an easy thing to swap in? Do you mean if fitting the Fujitsubo to a 240? Or 280? Or am I misunderstanding completely? 😂

Btw, your username makes me think of Arnold J Rimmer, is that what it's from?

I mean, you’ll probably change the diff ratio anyway so you drop a r180 in.

Basically just get the Fujitsubo and make it work!

You’re worth it!!
 
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