Matching numbers important!?

[AliK]

Chaps and chapesses,

I want to start a discussion which I fear may open old wounds on originality discussions.

As mentioned previously, my Z likes a quarter to a half litre oil top up every 200-300 miles or so (depending on how much of a hooligan I've been). I have a little "gardening leave" time coming up which may be just the chance to deal with it.

Cost isn't as much a factor as time and space.

But the thing that nags me the most and the main point of this discussion is: do I keep the car matching numbers? Does it matter as much in the z world!? Especially given my car is not wearing the original colour, bumpers, brakes or wheels!?

Options:

1. Rebuild bottom end (head already done) and keep the car matching numbers + add some improvements like port and polish etc? £1.5k - £2.5k , no left over block etc to have to dispose of.
2. Drop another engine in there from another car or rebuild another and drive mine while being done.
3. Buy a long block engine and have done with it (what do I do with the old one given no one buys 260z engines!?)


Will I de-value my Z without her original heart?

 

[Alphabettispaghetti]

The emotional value of having the original block does have a value to me. Its starting to matter to people now, it'll only get more of a factor as time goes by.

The other bits you've changed are just bolt on bits, fashion items in a way.

 

[uk66fastback]

My car is not wearing the original colour, bumpers, brakes or wheels!?

You've answered your own question really ... I don't think matching numbers comes into it.

 

[SeanDezart]

Its starting to matter to people now, it'll only get more of a factor as time goes by.

The other bits you've changed are just bolt on bits, fashion items in a way.

Agreed on the second point however, for matching numbers to count (imho), the car must be in keeping with an OEM specification and look.

In the majority of cases, any well-kept L24 or any cc for that matter is acceptable and it is the overall impression of the car that is important - "what is this car trying to be" that counts for end value.

 

[Alphabettispaghetti]

Agreed on the second point however, for matching numbers to count (imho), the car must be in keeping with an OEM specification and look.

In the majority of cases, any well-kept L24 or any cc for that matter is acceptable and it is the overall impression of the car that is important - "what is this car trying to be" that counts for end value.

OEM or Period ish spec/look.

 

[johnymd]

I have been thinking about this too. Although I'm really not into matching number at all, some people are. With regard to my silver car, it is currently so original (fuel injection can be easily remove) that I'm trying to decide on keeping the original 2.4 or dropping in a 2.8 and enjoying the extra torque. As the car gets use a lot it makes sense to go for the 2.8 and maybe drop in a 3.9 and 5 speed to improve driver enjoyment.

You can always keep the original engine, as I have done with the blue car and will do with the silver one if I go ahead with the swap.

 

[Huw]

I think it depends on what you value most from your car Ali. Appreciation of future value or drivability of the car now.

I'm with Johny with this one, you can always keep the original engine if matching numbers for a future sale is what you want. However, your engine maybe past economical repair (most things can however be repaired given enough money) so the question of matching numbers maybe a moot point until you know the extent of the internal damage.

Up to you at the end of the day mate its your car.

 

[SeanDezart]

Good point Huw (and John) - drop in a nice L28 and scrag it now whilst keeping a tired matching numbers for future resale value and the next owner can restore the engine !

 

[Alphabettispaghetti]

Good point Huw (and John) - drop in a nice L28 and scrag it now whilst keeping a tired matching numbers for future resale value and the next owner can restore the engine !

Or just restore the engine now. Nicely done 2.6 against 2.8?

 

[Woody928]

Interesting situation to be in, I pondered over this one myself when I was originally looking to purchase as initially matching numbers was important to me however I ended up buying a non-matching numbers car as it met all my other criteria. Several factors to consider in my opinion however I think ultimately it comes down question which only you can answer. Why do you have the car?

1) If you purchased it for yourself to enjoy and have fun with, using it regularly and would like the extra performance then go for it and change it (I’d stash the original block away though in the event of future re-sale as has already been suggested).

2) If you’re really worried about it remaining a very original car and looking at current/future resale values then I’m sure to several people and potential buyers this is very important to have the ‘original engine’. So you may want to keep it that way as is your choice.

All that being said there’s lots of people (myself included) that would just like to use a period L series engine. Obviously to others there’s appeal to going hybrid or even V8, to the right buyers the swapped cars will be worth just as much as the originals to others so there’s no right answer here.

In my situation I’m planning on picking up an L28 block and having that built for the car while I continue to enjoy it and then eventually roll into the shop and have mine ripped out and replaced. Personally I’d be much happier looking at a car with a nice L28 and 5 speed conversion for example over a stock matching numbers US car but that’s just me.

Hope that helps….

(I think the question which opens the tin of worms really, is what is actually ‘original’ these days )

 

[Farmer42]

Good point Huw (and John) - drop in a nice L28 and scrag it now whilst keeping a tired matching numbers for future resale value and the next owner can restore the engine !

This is the way I have gone with mine albeit I have gone from 2.0 to 2.6L. I have kept the original block in the garage to give the next buyer/owner the option whilst enjoying the extra power of a bigger engine. The only downside is that it's taking up space in my garage.

 

[supermik]

Never done Triggers broom any harm!

 

[SeanDezart]

Obviously to others there’s appeal to going hybrid or even V8, to the right buyers the swapped cars will be worth just as much as the originals to others

Nope - never and a flared-out Z compared to OEM form will be worth less already.

 

[Rob Gaskin]

I quite liked the fact that my old trackday car still had it's original engine.

It had the L24 block even though it was 2.8.

However in this day and age I would place more importance on an original shell - no welding, no replacement panels etc than a mechanical part.

My standard car had both and that's why I bought it.

If I was buying your car Ali I would prefer a good engine rather than a matching numbers smokey one.

Having said all that only change your engine for a known good one - otherwise get it rebuilt but be careful who you use.

 

[AliK]

Thanks for all the replies gents!

Totally agreed with the emotional attachment to the original block. Although I'm being convinced otherwise. I don't plan on ever selling the Z so maybe it should be period modified to be the best (without costing the earth) it can be?

Don't think the block is beyond repair as there are no water leaks (except from the water pump) and a 1mm overbore will sort out any / majority of scratch related issues. But again won't know until opened up.

Thinking about the L28 suggestions where would one source a fully rebuilt engine these days? All I can find is this guy ...

https://www.californiadatsun.com/lo...-240z-280z-p79-f54-l28-long-block-engine.html

Rob, I recall you went +3mm, did you use 280 pistons? Also did you keep your E88 head or did you go N42 / P90?

 

[status]

As silly prices are being asked for many so called classic cars it probably is a good idea to keep your original engine which is why I have decided to have ny 2.6 bored to just over 2.8 with a few go faster bits which should make it as fast or almost as my 3.1 so will be putting that in next year

 

[Woody928]

Nope - never and a flared-out Z compared to OEM form will be worth less already.

Given we're both experts on the matter we'll agree to disagree

I won't dispute the flared out arches one though.

 

[johnymd]

The most important bit to me is the originality of the shell. I do really like a factory looking interior too. By original shell I mean no welding, original arches, floors, and panels.

California Datsun - Al is the owner and he has a pretty bad reputation. Do a search on facebook and you will find lot said about him and his company. Having said this, I bought my silver car from him and it is the best car I've ever imported. That's why I'm keeping it.

 

[Rob Gaskin]

Thanks for all the replies gents!

Totally agreed with the emotional attachment to the original block. Although I'm being convinced otherwise. I don't plan on ever selling the Z so maybe it should be period modified to be the best (without costing the earth) it can be?

Don't think the block is beyond repair as there are no water leaks (except from the water pump) and a 1mm overbore will sort out any / majority of scratch related issues. But again won't know until opened up.

Thinking about the L28 suggestions where would one source a fully rebuilt engine these days? All I can find is this guy ...

https://www.californiadatsun.com/lo...-240z-280z-p79-f54-l28-long-block-engine.html

Rob, I recall you went +3mm, did you use 280 pistons? Also did you keep your E88 head or did you go N42 / P90?

Yes 280 pistons, original E88 head but enlarged valves - it would have been cheaper to go 2.8 'first off' but things developed during the rebuild.

 

[SeanDezart]

Given we're both experts on the matter we'll agree to disagree

I won't dispute the flared out arches one though.

I'm not an expert.And if you want to disagree that's fine but please substantiate your argument sir !

Buying a car and ordering parts from Al are two different things John - I've seen the FB comments too and yet I had no trouble buying a starter motor and some BMCs a few years back.