Discussion in 'Hybrid Z cars' started by Robbie J, May 31, 2019.
never said from that era
[mic drop]...[/mic drop]
not sure the forum supports gif's, you brought up Porsche I know what you mean as I drive one as daily no need to call me a troll
I'm not calling you a troll, but what relevance does your current, modern, daily driver Porsche have to the context of the discussion?
You brought up Porsche,it has a ton of options, the GTR today still has limited options, Nissan never learnt. When my GTR was imported in 07 the UK Nissan wasn't planning to offer the options I could get in Japan. I ended up changing the Premium edition so it ended up being identical to my car once the UK office saw it
Nothing ever changes is my point. All built at the same factory and all vary per region, none are perfect but if you modify you can get close to what you want
PS you edited out this, there is no need to do this because I vex you
[quote="Robbie J]PS you edited out this, there is no need to do this because I vex you
View attachment 33463
The one I wanted was actually the Troll Train. Because we all seem to be on it...
My son loved the movie when he was younger... I will be happier once I can drive the Datsun instead of type about it.... so lunch out in the porker, My son has just asked "what train is that? " since trains are his thing atm
You're almost making my point for me. All the "made for the USA" stuff (you've got Katayama phoning-in his request for a new sports car like my next door neighbour orders up his yukky Papa John's pizzas) seems either oblivious to - or willing to ignore - the fact that all other markets got sportier, more sophisticated and - yes! - more powerful and faster variants to choose from.
Japan's home market clearly got the cream of the crop, and why wouldn't it?
Yes, but the driver was to make a car for the US market, the interior of the S30 is big enough for US people. I know the real creation story for the last GTR and its different to what Nissan says in public. The sales guy made a difference (was the JDM 2lt that good?). I work in big company it works the same way
now going out in the sun in porker
This is where the detail starts to come in. A car that was aimed at mass sales in the North American market - just the same as the likes of MG, Triumph, Jaguar, Porsche, ALFA Romeo and even Ferrari were doing - is not quite the same as designing/styling and engineering solely for the North American market. We know that the USA percentile ergonomics were taken into account, but so were the Japanese percentile ergonomics. The evidence of equal effort being put into both LHD and RHD versions is there to be seen on every car, along with the natural RHD-biased design concession of the drivetrain.
If this "made for the USA" concept was so successful, how come we hear little of it for other contemporary or subsequent models? Why is Katayama synonymous with the Z rather than the little pickups and family sedans that outsold them in the same territory? And how come we never hear similar for, say, Jaguar's E-Type? We heard it for the Austin A90 Atlantic and it set a raft of AAA records, but was a sales flop. At what point does sold-like-hot-cakes-because-it-was-good-and-because-it-was-cheap-as-chips become "we made this just for you"?
Much of the legend surrounding these cars is the legacy of period sales slogans.
Well in my view and no doubt some will want me tared and feathered for saying it if it was not for the success of the Z sales in America I doubt whether the z series would have carried on to be produced
And if it so happened that Mr K was head of Nissan/Datsun in the States at that time his role was instrumental in the what cars be it pickups, sedans and Zs were imported and sold in the States
Take the amount of Zs being sold in the States out of the equation and I do not think it would have been a viable option to carry on with the production of the Z as we know it
That is my opinion and made with out any reference about whether my neighbour eats alleged yukky Papa John's pizzas, Indian takeaways or indeed sushi it is the same as his choice of car or model
and the weather is really nice outside, I'm going to wash the porker since we all agree now
As so often seems to be the case, people advocating the "if it wasn't for Katayama/the USA" scenario don't seem to be able to imagine that Nissan Japan, and the Japanese public themselves, might have had their own dreams, desires and ambitions in that period. It's almost like they don't count, except to make stuff for other countries...
Why wouldn't Nissan - and Japan itself - have had a modern, capable successor to the SP/SR Fairlady Roadster line? Do you think Nissan would have simply stopped making sports cars? Why? Why wouldn't they have a product in that sector? Why would they have just about everything else - including rocket science (designing and making satellite-launching rocketry for the Japanese space agency at their Ogikubo facility) and all sorts of other niche-filling machinery - but not a modern sports car conforming to new safety and technical legislation? Why would they make and sell low volume President limousines - with their own Nissan V8 engine - for the Japanese market but not a sports car? Would they - inexplicably - leave it to the likes of Mazda, Honda and - their greatest foe - Toyota?
The Big Picture requires knowledge and understanding of Nissan itself in that period, of Japan itself in that period and in the psyche of the Japanese people of that period.
Let's try to keep this all above the waist please.
Can you name any Nissan model that was only sold in the USA whilst Katayama was President of NMC USA? I'm finding it hard to think of one.
Katayama's influence has been overstated. Yes he was an important character, a KEY player in the expansion of the dealer network and surrounding systems in the Western Division of NMC USA, but he was not a product planner, designer, stylist or engineer and he had no official remit to influence those aspects of the company's business. He is often given credit for things that would have happened with or without him. They would have happened because of the sheer momentum of the business and because the economics of the time made them so. By the late 1970s NMC USA would find itself with new challenges that were partly a legacy of their previous success. All the "thanks Mr K!" stuff doesn't address any of that...
everybody is allowed an opinion but please don't bully others if they have a different one... still not convinced
Allan you have your opinion and I have mine
You talk about the president but I Have only seen one over here and I should imagine that that there are a lot of people who have never seen one
Just imagine it was the same with the Z we would never see one over here
Again it is MY opinion that it is a shame that Mr K was not over here
And I dont know how many time I have said that I agree that Mr K was not as you put it a product planner, designer, stylist or engineer
but at least now for the 2nd time you have agreed that he was a Key player in part of the Nissan story
Who am I bullying, and how?
I've tried to set forth a cogent and logical case to support my point of view and all I've got in return from you is some old waffle about you having visited the factory that made them (except it was a different factory and 40+ years too late) and some stuff about carbon brakes, your "Porker" and your GTR. You think Katayama was the key player in the S30 series Z story because he had access to a telephone? Did he ask them to put Pineapple on it for him?
You're "not convinced"? Give it another few years and you might just start to understand how far out of your depth you really are.
As usual Steve, you end up making my point for me. I brought up the Nissan President because it was a perfect example of Nissan doing something because they wanted to. It wasn't "for the USA", it was for Japan. That's why you have only seen the odd one over here (likely an ex Japanese embassy car) and hence backs up my point that Nissan was never bound by any "only for the USA" constrictions on any of its products of the time.
Let's face it, you went West in your Z-related pilgrimages and have been influenced by the legacies of contemporary advertising and the inward-looking USA scene which lionised Katayama without even knowing the names of the people who drew the lines, dragged the clay, punched the numbers and bashed the tin.
I went East, learned their names and shook their hands. Don't tell me I'm wrong.
Separate names with a comma.