LED bulbs / Indicators

[Makesy]

To achieve a decent brightness and minimise current draw across my car, I replaced the indicator bulbs with LED ones.

This results in 2 things:

1) My turn signals are VERY slow (on the right side there's about a 2 second gap between blinks, on the left side it will not blink at all, though the green arrow on the dash appears to light up, yet not flash).

2) The hazard flashes are also slowed

Switching back to standard bulbs, the flashes are better on the right, still weak on the left

I was led to believe LED bulbs can result in hyperflash, rather than a slowdown, so I'm a bit confused.

I think I may have a larger issue than just the LED bulbs, but has anyone experienced this? If so, how did you overcome it?

Thanks in advance

Alex

 

[uk66fastback]

I think you may need a new flasher unit if using LED.

 

[jonbills]

Flash rate is a function of current draw I think.

If they're not equal on normal bulbs, are all 3 bulbs lighting? If one bulb on one side is out it draws less current so slower flashing.

 

[Makesy]

I will do an experiment tomorrow with

1) all 4 standard

2) all 4 LED

A modern flasher unit will probably be available from a local car leccy store near me, so I'll give that a bash if it looks like it might work

 

[jonbills]

Haven't you got 6 indicators?

 

[Makesy]

Front left and right, rear left and right?

The rear brakes are also part of the indicator system on my Z but I'll be modifying to seperate them.

Unless I've missed something?

 

[Rob Gaskin]

Have a look on here:

https://www.bettercarlighting.co.uk/

 

[Makesy]

Have a look on here:

https://www.bettercarlighting.co.uk/

Thanks Rob - Will take a look

 

[Jimbo]

you might have a short circuit somewhere in one of the bulb holders, ive had somehting similer happen before where one of the bulb holders was short circuiting and it didnt light up however the others flashed but very slowly.
albeit that was on a mk2 vw golf so the electronics could be very different.

 

[jonbills]

Front left and right, rear left and right?

The rear brakes are also part of the indicator system on my Z but I'll be modifying to seperate them.

Unless I've missed something?

Oh, US car? I guess they're just "marker lights" on the front wings, not indicators.

 

[Makesy]

Oh, US car? I guess they're just "marker lights" on the front wings, not indicators.

Yes, US import. The front indicators were also wired up as sidelights for some reason, but I cut that off, so my sidelights are as they should be now (I re-routed the marker light to the in-bowl sidelight)

 

[toopy]

I fitted LED bulbs into my wing indicators and it made minimal difference to the flashing, they actually got slightly quicker, which i prefer anyway.

That said, i don't know if my flasher relay is OEM or not, but i've not changed it, and i've had if for 22 yrs!

Sounds like you have some other wiring issue though, does the hazard switch work correctly it uses a seperate relay, check the column switch for dodgy contacts, and check/clean earth connections.

 

[Makesy]

Today I swapped back to all 'standard' bulbs. Everything operated fairly normally, if slightly slow on the left side. Though not ideal, it will do for now whilst I sort out the rest of the car.

I went to my local auto electrics shop, and they didn't have any 3 pin flasher relays (which I've read elsewhere could work).

They advised I could try some resistors (I picked some up off Amazon a few days ago) but I'm reluctant to cut and solder in a bunch of resistors without knowing if this will actually cure the issue.

They claimed they didn't have any 'like for like' replacements for the relays I took to show them (both hazard and turn signal) which would suit LED bulbs, only ones suited to 'standard' bulbs. I'm not all that clued up on this stuff, so I took their word for it. I saw a compatible flashed on Rob's link above so I'll probably give that a bash.

Thanks for all your help.

 

[AliK]

Utter horse droppings!!!

Dropping 1: the whole point of adding LEDs is to reduce current flow, adding a resistor negates that benefit.

Dropping 2: what century are they in!? I picked up 2 different 2 pin flasher relays off eBay designed for LEDs and they both work perfectly (albeit totally silently, but I can't hear anything over my exhaust anyway)!!!!!!

This is one that I bought ....
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.co.uk/ulk/itm/272345314231

For a fiver you can experiment. Oh and btw I plugged it in with normal bulbs to test and it didn't blow it. I tried it both on the indicator and hazard relays - it actually made my hazards flash better.

On a more techie note, an old school / OEM two pin flasher relay uses a bi-metallic strip - the same principle as your kettle. Two metals that expand differently when heated are stuck together. The current flow heats them up and thy bend, therefore breaking the contact, until cooled and straighten again to remake contact and so on. With LEDs, you are reducing the current and hence the heating effect; and that's why you see a longer flash period. Modern ones use Electronics and therefore not using the light bulbs as a load for their operation.

Your left to right difference in flash rate is due to different resistances between left and right circuits. Firstly are you certain that the bulbs on the left and right are identical in wattage!?

As already said, the stalk contacts could be carboned up more on one side than the other (unlikely but possible). Alternatively the contacts / wiring at the bulbs or any connectors on the way to the bulbs could have corrosion which increases resistance.

Good luck and don't take so called experts on their word! Often people only know what they know and aren't able to think outside of it!

 

[Makesy]

Utter horse droppings!!!

Dropping 1: the whole point of adding LEDs is to reduce current flow, adding a resistor negates that benefit.

Dropping 2: what century are they in!? I picked up 2 different 2 pin flasher relays off eBay designed for LEDs and they both work perfectly (albeit totally silently, but I can't hear anything over my exhaust anyway)!!!!!!

This is one that I bought ....
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.co.uk/ulk/itm/272345314231

For a fiver you can experiment. Oh and btw I plugged it in with normal bulbs to test and it didn't blow it. I tried it both on the indicator and hazard relays - it actually made my hazards flash better.

On a more techie note, an old school / OEM two pin flasher relay uses a bi-metallic strip - the same principle as your kettle. Two metals that expand differently when heated are stuck together. The current flow heats them up and thy bend, therefore breaking the contact, until cooled and straighten again to remake contact and so on. With LEDs, you are reducing the current and hence the heating effect; and that's why you see a longer flash period. Modern ones use Electronics and therefore not using the light bulbs as a load for their operation.

Your left to right difference in flash rate is due to different resistances between left and right circuits. Firstly are you certain that the bulbs on the left and right are identical in wattage!?

As already said, the stalk contacts could be carboned up more on one side than the other (unlikely but possible). Alternatively the contacts / wiring at the bulbs or any connectors on the way to the bulbs could have corrosion which increases resistance.

Good luck and don't take so called experts on their word! Often people only know what they know and aren't able to think outside of it!

Thanks @AliK ! Learnt a lot from this post!

Now I'm £10 lighter (bought one for the hazards too!) but hopefully closer to the end goal!

This is a firm that rebuilds starter motors etc and has a rather comprehensive selection of parts available, so one would have hoped they knew what they were talking about. I don't use them often and will likely use them even less now!

 

[AliK]

You're welcome. Be sure to not use it with normal bulbs for too long as it's not rated to supply that much current and will burn it out after a while.

The alternator guys undoubtedly know car electrics well. In my experience many of these guys are slow to keep up with more modern developments.

 

[johnymd]

When I converted to LED headlamps and indicators I replaced both hazard and indicator flasher units with cheap electronic 2 pin flasher units. Being electronic they are not dependant on load. You will need to check the polarity though which is not an issue with the standard ones. Get the polarity wrong and they don't flash. I have also used a combination of LED and incandescent lamps.