SeanDezart
Well-Known Forum User
Chassis details Alan, not missing front repeaters and wrap'around, front, dual-lens indicators with imperial dash gauges.....amongts others no doubt
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Interesting 240Z
- Thread starter SeanDezart
- Start date
SeanDezart
Well-Known Forum User
Slippery fish here.....so this LHD car could have been destined for any LHD export market, fitted with rear wing repeaters as per local motoring laws and then landed in the UK in '74 ?
Albrecht
Well-Known Forum User
Chassis details Alan, not missing front repeaters and wrap'around, front, dual-lens indicators with imperial dash gauges.....amongts others no doubt
Define "chassis details".
SeanDezart
Well-Known Forum User
bare-shell
Albrecht
Well-Known Forum User
You seem to be trying to make water run uphill. Why are you trying to pin a specific "LHD export market" identity on this car when I've just spent so many words in trying to point out that it wouldn't necessarily need to conform to any specific export market spec? Diplomatic Sales department cars only needed to be legal in the place that the buyer wanted to use them in. And unlike the rest of the world (which got whatever turned up), when ordering a new car in Japan you could specify - from the available options, including colour - to your taste. They would make 'your' car for you.
I don't know why you seem so troubled by "...landed in the UK in '74"? It was a 3+ year old used car by '74. It could have turned up anywhere.
Albrecht
Well-Known Forum User
At what stage of construction? And what kind of detail are you thinking of (for example)?
We can split hairs all day.
SeanDezart
Well-Known Forum User
Alan, friend, you love to insert the words 'seem to'...!
I have no hidden agenda here.
I'm not trying to pin any export market on the car. You have stated and as we've all seen - it originated as a LHD car.
You've given example of how LHD cars were bought within Japan....and the only example given for a LHD version is that of a North American destined car.
I merely wish to ascertain, via your knowledge and experience, if this or any other LHD car would/could have been bought in Japan as new.
As you quite rightly say, in 1974 it was a s/hand car and could have turned up anywere - I'm certainly not troubled by that ; I merely quoted it from reading off the advert. It IS a detail that it turned up so early (as a LHD car) in a RHD country but means little else.
SeanDezart
Well-Known Forum User
Maybe 'cos we're the only tow really interested - there is no confliction here, no argument.
SeanDezart
Well-Known Forum User
before any panels, mechanics, trim - a bare shell ! I don't know which detail or I wouldn't be asking.
An example elsewhere might be the US shells having spaces behind the seats on the floor to house seatbelt inertia reels.
MCBladeRun
Club Member
Actually, if I may chime in, I don't know enough about the cars or their history to have anything to contribute, I'm sure others feel the same. I would say that between you both, answers to questions do pop up and we learn a little bit more each time.
AD240Z
Club Member
SeanDezart
Well-Known Forum User
Well, I don't have the answers......but I've a pocketful of good questions and no shame at looking ignorant
MCBladeRun
Club Member
Yeah, but we can't all gang up on Albrecht and bombard him with questions, be like squeezing blood from a stoneWell, I don't have the answers......but I've a pocketful of good questions and no shame at looking ignorant
It's more fun to watch you both debate, that way I don't feel any shame at all
SeanDezart
Well-Known Forum User
Happy to be the stooly...if the mods don't object.
Anyway, better to avoid a mass-debate.
Anyway, better to avoid a mass-debate.
Albrecht
Well-Known Forum User
Huh?
Is this a comprehension issue? I've tried in several posts to get through the message that a car ordered new through Nissan's Diplomatic Sales department need not necessarily be thought of as any specific market variant. I mentioned Okinawa and Guam as examples of LHD-biased territories where such a car could feasibly have been intended to be used. Both Okinawa and Guam were full of US services personnel who could qualify to order a new car through Nissan's Diplomatic Sales system.
And where does "North America destined..." come from? Again, a new car ordered from Nissan's Diplomatic Sales department would be effectively made to order, so how would it have been "destined" for North America unless the person ordering it intended to take it there?
Have I not made that fact clear? Seriously? Maybe I should try another language. Swahili, perhaps. Ndio.
Plenty of LHD cars (they didn't have to be Zs) turned up in the UK as chattels of US services personnel. Another known known.
In this car's case (the one that's the subject of this thread, remember...) there will hopefully be a paper trail to support the story. The Factor Max That Proved The Fact.
SeanDezart
Well-Known Forum User
It's like playing rugby with wet soap....
So, going through the remains of Sundays' roast chicken to pick out the facts and hopefully the wishbone (that we can ALL move on) :
1) Anyone from from export-market country whether RHD or LHD could have bought an S30 ordered new through Nissan's Diplomatic Sales department
2) That S30, irrespective of the buyers'nationality could have been ordered as RHD or LHD and in any* specification from the many options available.
3) The only known (known) cars that you know of are those bought and later personally exported by US servicemen whether on mainland Japan or the islands.
4) The car in question might therefore have a paper trail confirming it's travels but not in this case as an original RHD car because we've ascertained that it was LHD new :
'North America' comes from your words here :
Albrecht
Well-Known Forum User
From my point of view its more like a game of Monkey Tennis TM.
Your serve, and you put it straight into the net:
Why you no rissen? There were strict rules in play due to the tax breaks being offered. To qualify for a purchase from Nissan's Diplomatic Sales you'd have needed to have the applicable Japanese visa status. You couldn't just rock up and order.
Within reason, yes. Common Sense applies. It would have to comply with the pattern of available choices, so you couldn't order a Z with the Y40 V8 from an H150-series President.
What has "buyer's nationality" got to do with this? As I tried to make clear, the (theoretical) car in question would need to comply with regulations applicable to the territory in which the buyer intended to register it and use it.
"Only"? Not what I wrote. Go back and read again.
There are many examples of cars being bought in Japan (both new and used) by US forces personnel and later exported as personal property. I own such a car. Yes, they are the majority of known cases but I also know of cars that were purchased new (from Nissan Diplomatic Sales) by civilians who qualified for the scheme (clue: 'Diplomatic Sales'). I don't know why you seem to want to turn all this inside out and try to pick holes in it. A more scholarly approach would be to keep an open mind and look at each example (each such car) on a case-by-case basis.
The "bought new in Japan in 1970" comes from the seller's ad. I think it would be fairly safe to assume that doesn't come from nowhere, and that's he's got evidence to support the claim. You started off on this thread questioning that because - apparently - you had no idea that such a thing was possible. I have spent half my time on this thread attempting to get you to understand and accept the fact that it was indeed possible.
Unlike you, I'm happy to separate the seller's description of "bought new in Japan in 1970" from "original RHD". Clearly one of those is incorrect, but the other may easily be correct.
I don't automatically assume any malice or ill intent from the seller's description of the car as "original RHD". It could easily be that he doesn't understand the significance of the chassis prefix and the conversion from LHD to RHD has been done well enough for him not to notice that it had been carried out (LHD wiper layout notwithstanding). I've known people own cars for years without them understanding some of the most basic things about their car's identity, including a 2-seater 260Z with a GRLS30 chassis number (he was oblivious). The seller appears to be a general classic car dealer, not a Z specialist.
Again, you don't seem to pick up on the nuances. Somebody ordering from Nissan's Diplomatic Sales and intending - ultimately - to bring the car 'home' with them after their time in Japan was up would be wise to make the effort to ensure that the car complied with local regulations applicable to where it would eventually be taken. So - again, theoretical case - a buyer who would rotate back to California after a tour of duty in Japan might well specify a car that complied with HLS30-UV type details in order to smooth its transition onto Californian registration. It would also - key point - be worth more in California if it was largely similar to the locally-available models. This is, I think, logical and easy to understand. No doubt you will find a way to avoid doing so...