Ethanol in fuels.. additive to combat it..

AliK

Vehicle Dating Officer
Staff member
Club Member
Not wishing to dampen enthusiasm in any way.

Wasn't there a thread last year on mysteriously perishing fuel lines caused by ethanol in modern fuels that not all fuel lines are designed for?

Worth making sure your Z is kitted out with the right type before using.




Ali K
 

Mr.G

Club Member
Thanks Mike, it's a 1/3rd of the price too... I wonder why?

Ali - That's correct, hence why I think it's a good idea to use an additive such as this providing it does the trick and is not snake oil...
 

Huw

Club Member
Millers has been very effective on the pre war cars I'm running. The fuel systems on these are full of materials that ethanol dissolves. So far it seems to be working ok.
 

TomZupra

Well-Known Forum User
Does anyone understand the mechanism by which ethanol in fuel actually damages 70s era cars?

I work with ethanol and its a damn good solvent, I'm sure however that petrol is just as good. Do these products work to increase octane (which explain the increase in power/performance), inhibit the reactance of ethanol with rubber components or inhibit the growth of acetic acid producing bacteria which feed on ethanol?

Top of my list for this year on the Z is to look at the fuel system (after a friends bike when up in smoke after faulty seals he blames on ethanol) but I would like to understand the cause of the failure mechanisms before changing any components/adding additives. Any knowledge would be appreciated
 

AliK

Vehicle Dating Officer
Staff member
Club Member
Thanks Mike, it's a 1/3rd of the price too... I wonder why?



Ali - That's correct, hence why I think it's a good idea to use an additive such as this providing it does the trick and is not snake oil...


Apologies, I misunderstood the product!



Ali K
 

jonbills

Membership Secretary
Site Administrator
Does anyone understand the mechanism by which ethanol in fuel actually damages 70s era cars?

I work with ethanol and its a damn good solvent, I'm sure however that petrol is just as good. Do these products work to increase octane (which explain the increase in power/performance), inhibit the reactance of ethanol with rubber components or inhibit the growth of acetic acid producing bacteria which feed on ethanol?

Top of my list for this year on the Z is to look at the fuel system (after a friends bike when up in smoke after faulty seals he blames on ethanol) but I would like to understand the cause of the failure mechanisms before changing any components/adding additives. Any knowledge would be appreciated

Petrol is basically a non-polar solvent and is good at dissolving non polar things, whereas ethanol is fairly polar - so good at dissolving polar things.
So - I guess the fuel lines that fall apart are made from polar things.
 

Huw

Club Member
Does anyone understand the mechanism by which ethanol in fuel actually damages 70s era cars?

I work with ethanol and its a damn good solvent, I'm sure however that petrol is just as good. Do these products work to increase octane (which explain the increase in power/performance), inhibit the reactance of ethanol with rubber components or inhibit the growth of acetic acid producing bacteria which feed on ethanol?

Top of my list for this year on the Z is to look at the fuel system (after a friends bike when up in smoke after faulty seals he blames on ethanol) but I would like to understand the cause of the failure mechanisms before changing any components/adding additives. Any knowledge would be appreciated

There is lots of stuff on the net about it. But essentially for pre 70's cars, the damage to metal fuel components is due to the build up of acetic acid caused by the bacteria that can breed when fuel is left hanging around.

The water absorption qualities of ethanol allow the bugs to breed, plus with fuel sitting in your tank you can get a build up of water sucked from the atmosphere that will cause rust in the tank over time if its not treated. On top of that old rubber hoses and seals will over time deteriorate as the ethanol reacts with the material.

You can get around most of these issues with additives, coating the tank and replacing rubber hoses for modern equivalents. There has been a lot of discussion on here about that before.

There is lots more but I think that is essentially the three main mechanisms of ethanol damage and I'm sure I will be corrected if I've missed or misconstrued anything.
 

RIDDLER

Well-Known Forum User
But is this additive really necessary? I've been running classic 70s cars for the last 11 years now, four years with my current Z, and not had any fuel system problems. Is it just another scare story?
 

richiep

Club Member
But is this additive really necessary? I've been running classic 70s cars for the last 11 years now, four years with my current Z, and not had any fuel system problems. Is it just another scare story?

Check datsun dave's car build thread and see if you still feel that way! 5-600 quid in new fuel lines because all the existing ones had been eaten from the inside out while the car was standing for a year. Sprayed atomised fuel all over everywhere in an explosive cloud...

I've had to replace some of my fuel lines over the last couple of years (when preparing to re commission after winter lay-up) due to what I strongly suspect was the effect of ethanol on the rubber.
 

morbias

Well-Known Forum User
I also have to replace the fuel hoses on my car because they've disintegrated after a year of standing. When I put it together I used two types of hoses, one was rated for ethanol and that all looks as new as the day it was fitted. The sections where I used hose that wasn't ethanol rated are in a terrible state and the hose is cracked all over, though mostly around the carb area. This suggests to me that it's the ethanol fumes that are the cause as the engine gets run every now and then to keep things lubricated and moving but the fuel at the carbs will either drain back down or evaporate quickly after it's shut off, and these are the worst areas.
 

RIDDLER

Well-Known Forum User
Check datsun dave's car build thread and see if you still feel that way! 5-600 quid in new fuel lines because all the existing ones had been eaten from the inside out while the car was standing for a year. Sprayed atomised fuel all over everywhere in an explosive cloud...

I've had to replace some of my fuel lines over the last couple of years (when preparing to re commission after winter lay-up) due to what I strongly suspect was the effect of ethanol on the rubber.
So is the problem then when the cars are left standing? I use mine every week so should that prevent any problem?
 

SKiddell

Well-Known Forum User
Ethanol is there in the 1st place, to improve burn characturistics (eco) substitute "some" petrol for a renewable source and increase octane ratings (lead was deemed bad for some reason)..

Aside from galvanic reactions, the chemistry surrounding ethanol is an issue, its both acidic and contains high quantities of oxygen, on their own each is corrosive, added together its a double whammy.
 

AliK

Vehicle Dating Officer
Staff member
Club Member
Yikes!! I was planning on unblocking my vent hoses as I can't fill up the tank more than half full. Maybe it's safer to just leave them then! ;)



Ali K
 

smaurikid

Club Member
This may be a silly question, but I will ask it anyway........is ethanol in all fuels now? Or is it only in super plus stuff/ supermarket fuel/ European fuel? Except for when I head to France , I only use shell or BP posh stuff. I must admit I am slightly worried cos apart from being warmed up every other week it doesn't get out whilst the roads look like a world land speed record lake..........(and believe it or not a gritter just went past our 'owse !!!!:eek:)....so it hasn't been used much in the last few months. :unsure:
 

Mr.G

Club Member
Sadly Ethanol in our fuels is here and here to stay, I can't see any way round this other then to buy one of these bottles.. The situation will also get worse once they introduce E10 in fuels - they have done so in France (since 2009?), Germany and the USA of course. good news is they will have to label the pumps over here clearly that it has 10% ethanol ie E10.

The craziest thing about E10 is that it actually reduces mpg and performance...so why are we adding it? Due to an EU directive to use more renewable energy and e10 is derived from crops such as corn and sugar cane...,

If you don't already use one of these stabilisers, Its important thing to remember to try to leave your tank empty if you are going to let the car sit for more then 3 weeks. It would make sense if the pumps had a little button on them to blast a little ethanol stabiliser for those that need it...
 
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