Do I Need Spigot Rings?

Tim Jewitt

Well-Known Forum User
Apologies for the noob question; I cannot take any more searching on the internet for a definitive answer on this, so thought I'd ask here. I know nothing about wheel fitment. A billion times more than I did a couple hours ago, but still essentially nothing.

I have some random slot mags (not Wolfrace) that came with my car, which I'd like to put on instead of the Nissan 4-spokes that are currently on it. The mags have an 80mm centre bore. I understand my 260 hubs are 73mm? Certainly seems right, but I don't have calipers to measure accurately. The 4-spokes have a deep, tapered centre, which at first glance appears to match the profile of the hub; however, on inspection, the internal diameter of the centre of the 4-spokes, right at the back where they meet the hub, also appears to be about 80mm, like the mags, and so they can't actually be sitting on the hub? My lug nuts are, I understand, 'lugcentric', in that they have a flat, not tapered, face and fit tightly in the holes in the wheel (on both wheels). I also see that the 73mm flat part of the hub is only a couple mm thick before it tapers away anyway. So, my question after the long-winded build up, is do I need spigot rings for either of these wheels? What does everyone else do?
 
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ben240z

Club Member
The wheels locate on the wheel studs not the centre so as long as the wheel goes over the lump in the middle and the bolt/stud pcd is the same then they should be ok
 

Tim Jewitt

Well-Known Forum User
Perfect. Thanks for that. Could have saved myself 2-hours and a headache! I like to at least try and figure these things out for myself first before asking. Generally I just find myself navigating around various internet arguments but never actually locate an answer though...

On the same subject, I'm running Hilux 4-pots (installed by previous owner) and the clearance between the back of the wheel and the caliper is about 2mm with the 4-spokes and three rizla papers with the slot mags - problem?
 

Tim Jewitt

Well-Known Forum User
God knows how I didn't turn that thread up. See I was wondering about wheel spacers and how they worked when I was thinking about this, and figured the centre must have to be tapered to an exact much for the hub?
 

Ian

Club Member
I was wondering about this as the datsun doesn't seem to have much in the way of spigot suport, especially on the rear. Will be even worse after I change to rear discs and billet stub axles.
 

ben240z

Club Member
I was wondering about this as the datsun doesn't seem to have much in the way of spigot suport, especially on the rear. Will be even worse after I change to rear discs and billet stub axles.
Thats why they use the tube nut to hold the wheels on
 

johnymd

Club Member
Hope this develops into a good debate with all the pros and cons being mention at some point.

As far as I'm aware, the Z has no spigot on the front or back. I had to machine a bit from the centre of the Rota's to get them to fit the front but it wasn't done with the accuracy needed to create a spigot. I've also changed my wheel nuts so the dont have the support sleeve. How worried should I be?
 

Ian

Club Member
The wheels locate on the wheel studs not the centre so as long as the wheel goes over the lump in the middle and the bolt/stud pcd is the same then they should be ok

Thats why they use the tube nut to hold the wheels on
Sorry, but I've always been told differently, the nuts are just there to hold the wheels on, the weight of the wheel should be supported by the spigot. Thats certainly how it works on most cars I've seen.


I'm sure in the worst case the wheel could move slightly on the nuts everytime it rotates.
 

Tim Jewitt

Well-Known Forum User
From what I've read the two main potential problems are: steering wheel vibrations from the wheels not being perfectly centred, and wheel studs getting damaged /.snapping under impact, hard braking etc, as supposedly the load should be on the hub, not the studs.

I had an old MR2 years ago, bought some aftermarket wheels which were missing the spigot rings, and did get steering wheel vibrations until I sourced some. That had tapered wheel nuts though, not sleeved / lugcentric ones.

My Nissan 4-spokes definitely do not sit flush on the hub; however, they have flat / lugcentric stud holes. Were they OEM on any Zs? Course they could have originally come with spigot rings that mine no longer has...

I understand lugcentric / sleeved nuts should centre the wheel OK. But obviously that still leaves the potential wheel-falling-off scenario. Seems an awful lot of people get away with it just fine mind.

Anyone have any opinion on this:

Tim Jewitt said:
On the same subject, I'm running Hilux 4-pots (installed by previous owner) and the clearance between the back of the wheel and the caliper is about 2mm with the 4-spokes and three rizla papers with the slot mags - problem?
 

ben240z

Club Member
As usual different opinions to sift through..
Fiats sit the rims on 2 pins with no central location
Transits and other vans have a large hole in the centre of the wheel and rely on the wheel studs, nuts to locate the wheel
Mgf has a central spigot that the ally wheel corrodes to
My motorhome has a large hole in the wheel that does not locate the wheel.

On the race car I use flat faced spacers and then champhered wheel nuts so the wheels are using the wheel studs to locate the wheel.

I have no idea which is right or wrong but logic tells me that the tube nuts on the datsun will locate the rim on the hub.

I think it will be your decision to make on which system you are going to use on your car

Good luck
 

Tim Jewitt

Well-Known Forum User
I'm fairly confident now that with the kind of driving I'll be doing in it that it'll be fine. It's not like I'm going to be thrashing it around a track or anything. Thanks for the input.
 

tel240z

Club Member
yes

As usual different opinions to sift through..
Fiats sit the rims on 2 pins with no central location
Transits and other vans have a large hole in the centre of the wheel and rely on the wheel studs, nuts to locate the wheel
Mgf has a central spigot that the ally wheel corrodes to
My motorhome has a large hole in the wheel that does not locate the wheel.

On the race car I use flat faced spacers and then champhered wheel nuts so the wheels are using the wheel studs to locate the wheel.

I have no idea which is right or wrong but logic tells me that the tube nuts on the datsun will locate the rim on the hub.

good luck

I think it will be your decision to make on which system you are going to use on your car

A fine conclusion there Ben, only one point to add just make sure the hub face and wheel to hub contact surface is nice and clean, i know that most alloys seem to be powdercoated this seems to be ok, but no painted hubs or backs of wheels please as the paint gets hot, melts away the nuts come loose and then :eek::eek::eek::eek:
 

Ian

Club Member
Its not just about centering the wheel, its whether the studs are strong enouth to support the weight on their own. Certainly on my civic the weight of the car is supported by the spigot on the hub and the studs job is mainly to hold the wheel on, without that I'm sure the wheel would constanly move as the car rolled even if it was only by a mm.
 

zbloke

Club Member
My Compomotive ML's have a tapered steel insert pressed into them that the tapered wheel nut pulls up against, I think the taper is 60 degrees, I assume this secures and centralises the wheel as I don't run spigot rings

I've not had one fall off yet in 2 years of track action and when checking the wheel nut torque I've not found any that have backed off or loosened
 

ben240z

Club Member
this is the wonderful thing about choice. From your experience you would choose to have a spigot locate the wheel on the hub and then the nuts/bolts hold the wheel to the hub.

Not wrong.

Some manufacturers do not rely on a spigot to locate the wheel but are happy for the stud/tube nuts or in some cases taper on the wheel nuts to locate and hold the wheel in place. This practice has been going on for years and is still happening now

Not wrong

A lot of commercial vehicles, lorries, coaches have a wheel that locates purely on the wheel studs and the nuts are then used to locate and hold the wheel on. With the nuts done up to the correct torque they do not come loose

Not wrong

The wheels on my Pilbeam are F1 BAR rims and they locate on 3 bolt heads(round allen key headed bolts) that hold the disc onto the hub. The wheel centre hole is approx 5mm larger than the centre threaded hub that the taper faced single wheel nut threads onto and this clamps the wheel tightly to the hub. Good for 180mph without any vibration or wheel nut coming loose.

Not wrong

Each person will have a different view and opinion on whether each method is preferable. They will then make their choice.

Not wrong
 

Rob Gaskin

Treasurer
Staff member
Site Administrator
Just to add:

Original steel 240Z wheels do not fit snug on the hub, nor do 260Z wheels on 240Z hubs.
 
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