Joey Bratten
Forum User
As long as you're not super high power on a 4.1 as theyre the weakest setup due to tooth profile compared to the rest. 4.1 are easy to get though so just message if you fancy one! love the car dude
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Datsun 280Z -77 - Build thread
- Thread starter peter_s
- Start date
As long as you're not super high power on a 4.1 as theyre the weakest setup due to tooth profile compared to the rest. 4.1 are easy to get though so just message if you fancy one! love the car dude
Joey, can you confirm? are you referring to final drive pinion & crown wheel pairs for R200 long nose diff in those ratios? I'd fancy one.
(sorry Peter for the diversion)
peter_s
Club Member
Go ahead! I don't mind at all
I couldn't agree more, we build these cars to our needs and desires. It's amazing to see how everyone personalises their cars to their own taste and requirements. Thanks, I'm certainly very happy with the choices I've made to keep my car street-able. I love seeing you taking this build to another level though.
Very keen to hear you get on with it all on Thursday, it sounds mega fun!
That's really reassuring on the engine front, quite impressive that he's maintained the low down drivability for you as well as the insane top end grunt. The sound must be intoxicating on the 50mm ITB's! Pretty impressive stuff the way modern machinery is going, this old school kit even when updated won't ever be on the same level but its still good to hear another owner surprising people with an old Datsun
Thanks for sharing, that's good to know. I'll be rebuilding the LSD in mine and need to decide what to do with the very original looking half shafts currently fitted, either a simple refresh or a serious upgrade. These really do look the business if you forget the price tag for a second, over engineered high quality items always appeal. It's never ending...
Very keen to hear you get on with it all on Thursday, it sounds mega fun!
That's really reassuring on the engine front, quite impressive that he's maintained the low down drivability for you as well as the insane top end grunt. The sound must be intoxicating on the 50mm ITB's! Pretty impressive stuff the way modern machinery is going, this old school kit even when updated won't ever be on the same level but its still good to hear another owner surprising people with an old Datsun
Thanks for sharing, that's good to know. I'll be rebuilding the LSD in mine and need to decide what to do with the very original looking half shafts currently fitted, either a simple refresh or a serious upgrade. These really do look the business if you forget the price tag for a second, over engineered high quality items always appeal. It's never ending...
Joey Bratten
Forum User
These would be the short nose ones but I can enquire with the guy that gets them for me to see if he can get long nose ones
Albrecht
Well-Known Forum User
Kameari Engine Works have long supplied their own-commisioned 3.154, 4.875 and 5.1 ratio crownwheel and pinion sets for the 'Long Nose' R200 diffs, but (OEM, stock) 3.9, 4.1, 4.375 and 4.625 ratios have long been unavailable for the 'Long Nose' R200s. For many years now, the only viable source has been from secondhand diffs (usually from R30 and R31 Skylines), but with the increasing 'Neo Classic' status of R30 and R31 models since the late 1990s these have been drying up. I used to see shelves full of them at specialists in Japan, but not any more. They are changing hands for high prices when available.
#Drifting World Wisdom.
I think this might well apply to 'Short Nose' R200s, but it would be unwise to assume it also applies directly to 'Long Nose' R200s. The 'weak point' in Long Nose R200 CWPs is the pinion gear in certain ratios, and the mnemonic is usually that the higher the numerical, the higher the chance to break the pinion's teeth. It's fairly simple physics really; Ratio is essentially the size of the stick you give to your engine's output.
Joey Bratten
Forum User
Not true, we've found the 4.1 crown breaks far easier than the 4.3, 4.6 and 4.9. It's due to the tooth profile. Based on experience and not 'basic physics'.
Joey Bratten
Forum User
I can get 3.9, 4.1, 4.375, fairly easily, they are pricey like you say though.
There's no contradiction - I think @Albrecht is saying that the common experience of long nose R200's is that the higher the ratio the more likely it is to break. Which is different to your experience of short nose R200's. Which is OK, since they're different.
Albrecht
Well-Known Forum User
Well, apart from the fact that basic physics applies to 'tooth profile' just as much as the ratio does, Fuji Heavy Industries' 50-odd years of experience in 'Long Nose' R200 diffs is that particular pinion gear counts are more susceptible to breakage than others. The reason why is pretty obvious when you think about it...
Not sure if they still have stock, but NEAT GEARBOXES in Australia made a short run of 4.1 ratio CWP sets for Long Nose R200s last year. Price - I believe - was 2k AUD a set.
tyroguru
Club Member
This is Peter's thread and I know he appreciates quality engineering so I'm going to post this even though I always normally obey what Mr. Bills says . I'm not meaning to prolong any unwanted discussion but I think it may be of general interest just to provide a link to the NEAT GEARBOXES offering that Alan refers to. They do look beautiful: https://www.facebook.com/Neatgearboxes/posts/3705019279612198.
Again, apologies but hopefully this is interesting enough to not cause offence.
. I'm not meaning to prolong any unwanted discussion but I think it may be of general interest just to provide a link to the NEAT GEARBOXES offering that Alan refers to. They do look beautiful: https://www.facebook.com/Neatgearboxes/posts/3705019279612198.Again, apologies but hopefully this is interesting enough to not cause offence.
peter_s
Club Member
Ok, first shakedown!
Did the first sprint race of the season yesterday. Though long about putting the car on the trailer, but then I thought, if it can't do this short trip (50min), then why bother...
They car behaved perfectly on track. The new rear control arms made the car A LOT more stable. It's amazing what a little toe in can do for that. Last year the car was very nervous in the rear, especially with load changes. I was struggling with oversteer then, and had to put the rear dampers in the softest setting to counteract that. But that also made the car understeer a little in the tight turns. The car feels much more planted now, and I could push it way harder. I'm really happy with the alignment as well, I will tinker more after some more driving. The LSD helped as well of course, I could now steer the car with the gas pedal.
Then the engine: Oh man, I am so impressed with it. The drivability is really really good. The increased revrange meant I could drive it in 2nd gear everywhere, and still have 2000rpm left on the small straight on the sprint track. I have only driven one hotted Lseries before, and it was just gutless below 4000rpm, and had to be in 1st gear to be able to drive it in the tight sections. The DSI engine doesn't lack in the sow end. Yes, the power comes on after 5000 for real, but there is enough torque so a downshift isn't necessary in the slower sections. The response and drivability is outstanding, I had a huge grin on my face the whole time.
Videos will come:
The mix of cars is fantastic:
The car behaved perfectly the whole time, until:
back in the garage... with the trusty steed behind
Did the first sprint race of the season yesterday. Though long about putting the car on the trailer, but then I thought, if it can't do this short trip (50min), then why bother...
They car behaved perfectly on track. The new rear control arms made the car A LOT more stable. It's amazing what a little toe in can do for that. Last year the car was very nervous in the rear, especially with load changes. I was struggling with oversteer then, and had to put the rear dampers in the softest setting to counteract that. But that also made the car understeer a little in the tight turns. The car feels much more planted now, and I could push it way harder. I'm really happy with the alignment as well, I will tinker more after some more driving. The LSD helped as well of course, I could now steer the car with the gas pedal.
Then the engine: Oh man, I am so impressed with it. The drivability is really really good. The increased revrange meant I could drive it in 2nd gear everywhere, and still have 2000rpm left on the small straight on the sprint track. I have only driven one hotted Lseries before, and it was just gutless below 4000rpm, and had to be in 1st gear to be able to drive it in the tight sections. The DSI engine doesn't lack in the sow end. Yes, the power comes on after 5000 for real, but there is enough torque so a downshift isn't necessary in the slower sections. The response and drivability is outstanding, I had a huge grin on my face the whole time.
Videos will come:
The mix of cars is fantastic:
The car behaved perfectly the whole time, until:
back in the garage... with the trusty steed behind
Joey Bratten
Forum User
Sounds like an awesome day. Agreed how different a car can be with just a little toe etc! Shame about the ending, do you know what the issues was?
peter_s
Club Member
Yeah, no biggie. The car doesn't charge like it should. I think the battery is worn (still the same as the car had when I bought it), but the alternator doesn't seem to supply enough voltage... So I will have to look at it. I have a trackday next week at a real circuit, and I don't know if I have time to fix it until then. Might bring a spare battery. I learned one thing though after the car didn't start this morning with the battery charged: The fuse to the coils blow when the voltage drops, so it's good to have spares!
Tow truck came in under 20 minutes. Great service!
The ironic thing is that I passed the exit to my garage 2 km back, and I though about changing car for the short drive home. But I got lazy and though, "I'll make it home"... And no joke, I was sitting thinking about how much voltage the ECU would need for operation, 10sec later the car stopped firing Well well, it was a great lesson.
Other than that, the whole installation seems very solid. I can thank the shop that finished up my work!
Tow truck came in under 20 minutes. Great service!
The ironic thing is that I passed the exit to my garage 2 km back, and I though about changing car for the short drive home. But I got lazy and though, "I'll make it home"... And no joke, I was sitting thinking about how much voltage the ECU would need for operation, 10sec later the car stopped firing
Well well, it was a great lesson. Other than that, the whole installation seems very solid. I can thank the shop that finished up my work!
I think it wouldn't stop when running with a bad battery - I'd look first at the alternator.
the ECU will increase dwell on the coils with the lower voltage. A bigger fuse would seem a reasonable response - with a bigger fuse you'd probably have got home and not found out about the problem until your track day next week
the ECU will increase dwell on the coils with the lower voltage. A bigger fuse would seem a reasonable response - with a bigger fuse you'd probably have got home and not found out about the problem until your track day next week
On the whole a great day. An old Datsun doesn't need much charge but you have messed with it and gone efi I assume you have a voltmeter in your 280.
My old 240 track car was really stable at the rear I could trust it 100% it was the front that understeered a bit that need the geometry setting.
However I had a lot less power than you but I only had 195 tyres!
Videos - yes please.
I assume you have a voltmeter in your 280.My old 240 track car was really stable at the rear I could trust it 100% it was the front that understeered a bit that need the geometry setting.
However I had a lot less power than you but I only had 195 tyres!
Videos - yes please.