Datsun 240Z in 'Sameria' Spec

[Albrecht]

...sad buffs should eff off and restore a Morris Minor or whatnot.

Is this part of your effort to "promote/publicise/popularise" the marque and models?

 

[uk66fastback]

It's sadly lacking if it is, but true to form!

 

[strugrat]

Looks great, totally agree. BUT, far from original and/or mint - not only because of the parts added but the structure of the shell would have been compromised by piecing together several other cars parts. This can be done without a problem and I am sure it has plenty of strength. Visually any S30 fan or a good judge/critic would know that the car has had a lot of new panels to make 'sound' again.

Ive no issues with a patched up car - look at my first one! But it wasn't mint. It was structurally solid as I proved when I stuck it in a lamppost although the cage helped.. Id have never dreamed of entering that shell in a competition.

What I'm trying to say is I agree with Richie, its uneconomical to repair. If you want to make a 40K 240Z RHD car this isn't the shell to do it with, I wouldn't part with my cash to buy a car that's had multiple panels replaced.

Dan

To my simple mind, my car is mint (as in its now in great condition compared to how it started). Is it original? No of course not, which is exactly what I wanted!

 

[chrisvega]

Chris, my car very very nearly fitted your description. Remarkable - original owner from 1973 until his death in 2006. NO rust, 28k miles.

I didn't try to sell it, I was 'persuaded' by a young guy who wanted a standard car. He contacted me and asked if I knew where he could buy an original UK car and I said no, but I have one. I also had my blue car by then.

Chris, my car very very nearly fitted your description. Remarkable - original owner from 1973 until his death in 2006. NO rust, 28k miles.

I didn't try to sell it, I was 'persuaded' by a young guy who wanted a standard car. He contacted me and asked if I knew where he could buy an original UK car and I said no, but I have one. I also had my blue car by then.

There was bound to be one somewhere.
Shouldn't have let that one go Rob, sounds like a surefire keeper, family heirloom, better than gold.
Shame it's never seen out and about.

 

[IbanezDan51]

To my simple mind, my car is mint (as in its now in great condition compared to how it started). Is it original? No of course not, which is exactly what I wanted!

Absolutely agree with you buddy, wasn't saying its not in great condition and serves the exact purpose it was built for, just like my first Z although yours is MUCH nicer than that!

 

[SeanDezart]

Price of 240Z limited in UK ? Compared to where ? Still more expensive here than in States otherwise imports would not happen (although from recent sale prices seen on BAT the gap is shrinking). Without going into semantics of whether they are 'restored cars' or 'recreations' MZR seem to be doing OK, selling such cars for anywhere around £ 60/80k+ and they are using 'clean imported chassis' to build them.

Using an imported shell to restore a rusted out UK car is a question of economics and common sense as others have tried to point out earlier in the thread.
Unless someone has a particular emotional attachment to a car ie in family from new or it has significant historical interest, there is no point unless you are a masochist or have more money than sense in going to the hassle and expense of trying to restore a rusty wreck using whatever new/used/fabricated panels you can find.

The sale price of the 240Z is limited in the UK, not compared to where (although In Japan no doubt Alan can enlighten us on their street value) but to what :

has the appreciation (and speculation) of a stock UK market 240Z reached the point where collectors are prepared to pay +£50k for one ? I don't think so although there are people willing to pay more than that for restored cars whether they be a MZR brand or not .

 

[SeanDezart]

The sale price of the 240Z is limited in the UK, not compared to where (although In Japan no doubt Alan can enlighten us on their street value) but to what :

has the appreciation (and speculation) of a stock UK market 240Z reached the point where collectors are prepared to pay +£50k for one ? I don't think so although there are people willing to pay more than that for restored cars whether they be a MZR brand or not .

Sorry, should have added that certain USA shells aren't the same as UK ones either and that is above and beyond the LHD bit.

Basically, you're all condemning this original UK market 240Z chassis number to the grave - they're rare enough as it is without dismissing it as unrestorable !

 

[uk66fastback]

I've seen a LOT worse than this restored. This is very restorable by the looks of it. Whether anyone wants to do it is another matter!

 

[SeanDezart]

It's sadly lacking if it is, but true to form!

Please explain that remark Mike.

Is this part of your effort to "promote/publicise/popularise" the marque and models?

Explain to me how restoring a car and then keeping it locked away in a garage (hence the preface of 'sad' and not simple 'buffs') in any way promoting the marque !

Thanks for the heads-up on this article : https://zclub.net/community/index.php?threads/the-telegraph-classic-datsun-240z-article.24783/

and please note that it's all about driving it, not spending Sunday morning pushing it out of the garage, polishing it and pushing it back in....Zs are for driving !

 

[chrisvega]

The sale price of the 240Z is limited in the UK, not compared to where (although In Japan no doubt Alan can enlighten us on their street value) but to what :

has the appreciation (and speculation) of a stock UK market 240Z reached the point where collectors are prepared to pay +£50k for one ? I don't think so although there are people willing to pay more than that for restored cars whether they be a MZR brand or not .

We have already established that there are very very few unrestored stock/mint original UK HS30 cars around, but let's take the example that Rob mentioned he owned.
Yes, that car would be worth at least £50k in today's market in the UK.
Give me the choice of an original 28k mile car against a restored example and the former wins.
You are failing to recognise the value in the original car is due to it's uniqueness - that originality can't be replicated. Find another one !
No amount of money thrown at a restored car can replace the character and patina in that original car.

 

[Albrecht]

Explain to me how restoring a car and then keeping it locked away in a garage (hence the preface of 'sad' and not simple 'buffs') in any way promoting the marque !

...and please note that it's all about driving it, not spending Sunday morning pushing it out of the garage, polishing it and pushing it back in....Zs are for driving !

:shrug: ALL cars are "for driving". You might as well remind us that all wines are "for drinking" too.

What I object to it the characterisation of "sad buffs". It just comes across as inverted snobbery to me. Jocks vs nerds and all that. Yes, I'm all in favour of old cars being driven, but I can see why a lot of them are not and their owners' situations are each unique.

 

[SeanDezart]

We have already established that there are very very few unrestored stock/mint original UK HS30 cars around, but let's take the example that Rob mentioned he owned.
Yes, that car would be worth at least £50k in today's market in the UK.
Give me the choice of an original 28k mile car against a restored example and the former wins.
You are failing to recognise the value in the original car is due to it's uniqueness - that originality can't be replicated. Find another one !
No amount of money thrown at a restored car can replace the character and patina in that original car.

I'd have the restored one, thanks.

I'm sure that 95% of potentiel Z owners wouldn't be swayed by that unique, bluey-whiteness originality either, unless the price was a give-away which is unlikely given the value you stated.

 

[SeanDezart]

:shrug: ALL cars are "for driving". You might as well remind us that all wines are "for drinking" too.

What I object to it the characterisation of "sad buffs". It just comes across as inverted snobbery to me. Jocks vs nerds and all that. Yes, I'm all in favour of old cars being driven, but I can see why a lot of them are not and their owners' situations are each unique.

BUT, not all wines ARE for drinking are they - poor comparison there Alan.

Stop defending the 'fragile wall-flowers', that VERY small minority who do have pristine Zs in their garage and remain unseen.

Rather, explain to me how these cars can be promoting the marque better than those which are seen albeit in perhaps less stock and concours condition ?

As Dr Lector rightly said :https://www.quotes.net/mquote/128215

Hannibal Lecter:
No, he covets. That's his nature. And how do we begin to covet, Clarice? Do we seek out things to covet? Make an effort to answer, now.

Clarice Starling:
No. We just …

Hannibal Lecter:
No. We begin by coveting what we see every day. Don't you feel eyes moving over your body, Clarice? And don't your eyes seek out the things you want?

Oh and for the sad buffs :

Hannibal Lecter:
Oh Clarice, your problem is, you need to get more fun out of life.

Go drive a Z, be seen and let others covert that Z !

 

[SeanDezart]

uk66fastback said: ↑It's sadly lacking if it is, but true to form!

Please explain that remark Mike.

Still waiting Mike please. I'm really not sure how it was meant and how to take it.


Btw, I'm just booking some of my work leave to be setting up and manning our club stand at Paris' Rétromobile, a 4hr drive from me, where we'll be for 6x days in the hope of attracting some of the +120,000 people to pay a little attention to a car shortly to be celebrating its' 50th birthday.

Just one of several 50th promotions next year from our club.

 

[uk66fastback]

Don’t read too much into it Sean!

But then stop rubbishing some Z owners ... with careless comments. Not everyone is like you.

 

[Albrecht]

BUT, not all wines ARE for drinking are they - poor comparison there Alan.

How is it a poor comparison? You've just proved my point!

You just push too hard and in the wrong place. Alienating certain type of owners and/or certain types of enthusiast (with your "sad buffs" comment, for example) is not the way to 'promote' anything. This whole 'get out there and use them' clubby thing was alright in years past, but times and personal circumstances change and there's sometimes an implied obligation to 'join in' which some people don't respond well to.

If we preserve the cars - like good wine for future drinking - and make sure that people correctly understand and appreciate them (which, for me, includes piping up when someone speaks ill of them) then they stand a better chance of coming into the right hands. As you well know, we are only temporary caretakers of the best things in life.

 

[SeanDezart]

C'mon Alan - you must realise I was referring to laid-down bottles of Château de riche plonk changing hands for thousands of pounds and like those Pebblebeach cars - never used for their intended purpose - just passed on from investor to investor and another source of potential owners as Porsche 911 and Jag E-Type owners either sell or store, scared to drive their cars !

The whole 'get out there and use them 'clubby' thing is how they're seen or should we all wait until Johnny journalist comes along and asks for a stock Z to thrash down some country lane ? In order to promote - they must be seen - car shows both indoors and out, race meetings, racing itself, social/touristic runs, charity events....and why not the good ol' fashioned club meets of days gone past ?

For you and Mike - name these 'some' and 'certain' owners who suirrel their cars away and I'll apologise publicly but privately I shall remain convinced that these cars should be used - would you suggest at Goodwood that those million-pound cars shouldn't be raced like they stole them ?

Indeed, we are only caretakers but be careful, if our governments follow through on their promises, the next generation won't have any petrol on sale for them...so, too avoid being the boy who won't sleep with his girlfriend to keep her in good nick for the next bloke, get out there and make the most of them now !

 

[SeanDezart]

Don’t read too much into it Sean!

But then stop rubbishing some Z owners ... with careless comments. Not everyone is like you.

Not sure I can't read much into it - it appears to be a very off the cuff sycophantic comment and Mr Thomas - he neither needs nor seeks any support. But no hard feelings and as stated above, name these 'some owners' and I'll apologise publicly.

I never rubbished those woners taking more pleasure in the restoration of their cars than actually driving them - I referred to those who do and lock them away of which I'm sure there are a very tiny minority ultimately rewarding the next owner.

My own Zs' restoration although having taken longer then wished has also been a constructive and pleasant experience and I shall be driving mine as soon as.....as if I get a couple of stone-chips - so be it !

 

[chrisvega]

For you and Mike - name these 'some' and 'certain' owners who suirrel their cars away and I'll apologise publicly but privately I shall remain convinced that these cars should be used - would you suggest at Goodwood that those million-pound cars shouldn't be raced like they stole them ?

Keep it quiet Sean, but quite a few of those so called million pound cars racing around Goodwood are 'replicas'

 

[SeanDezart]

Bloody rip-off then to go watch 'em and there's another point - any Zs racing are the real pukka !

Psst - don't tell anyone but this isn't a real 240ZG either but it did finish on the podium recently at Magny Cours behind two prototypes !