Camber, caster, toe-in etc

Turn & Burn

Club Member
For those that can adjust their suspension geometry, I’m wondering what settings you’ve gone for on a lowered road biased car.
I’ve just finished making a jig for mounting to the wheel rim so I can to measure camber n caster with a proper gauge, also made a couple of turning plates and bought some alu tube so I can set up a string line round the car. I’ve got some ideas on setup off the US forums but just wondered what people go for here. There seems to be a lot of variation and even toe-in or out is debated.
I’m currently at 2mm toe-in, 1 deg neg camber on the front and a touch more caster than stock, unknown value at present.
I’ve not checked camber on the back yet but it’s definitely excessive.02C5D16C-6133-412A-B6CE-0E135913C9AD.jpeg1C7EC05D-019F-4BAB-9CB7-736C71691F84.jpeg
 
Last edited:
have you got solid or rubber bushings?

its personal preference, however I'd try 2 Deg out on the front(reduce understeer and give better response)

on the rear 1 deg in(maybe 1.5), as it'll toe out under power, and try to balance the front for understeer and keep it stable in a straight line.
 

Turn & Burn

Club Member
have you got solid or rubber bushings?

its personal preference, however I'd try 2 Deg out on the front(reduce understeer and give better response)

on the rear 1 deg in(maybe 1.5), as it'll toe out under power, and try to balance the front for understeer and keep it stable in a straight line.

Cheers Jason, Polybush all round. I can’t adjust rear toe at present, still on stock arms. I know I asked (and you said it’s personal choice) but I might find that much toe-out a bit twitchy?. No harm in giving it a try though!
 
Cheers Jason, Polybush all round. I can’t adjust rear toe at present, still on stock arms. I know I asked (and you said it’s personal choice) but I might find that much toe-out a bit twitchy?. No harm in giving it a try though!

it'll toe out under power/gyroscopic forces. what do you run in your kit car?

at least the front will feel planted :)

what size Arb's have you got? there must be a clever way we can adjust the rear when using std arms.....
 

jonbills

Membership Secretary
Site Administrator
it'll toe out under power/gyroscopic forces. what do you run in your kit car?

at least the front will feel planted :)

what size Arb's have you got? there must be a clever way we can adjust the rear when using std arms.....
MSA sell adjustable offset bushes for std rear arms. you can get some toe adjustment with them.

must say I had a little front toe out on my MR2 and it felt horrible.
 

Rob Gaskin

Treasurer
Staff member
Site Administrator
have you got solid or rubber bushings?

its personal preference, however I'd try 2 Deg out on the front(reduce understeer and give better response)

on the rear 1 deg in(maybe 1.5), as it'll toe out under power, and try to balance the front for understeer and keep it stable in a straight line.

Interesting - front toe-out is the opposite to what I was led to understand. I thought toe-in on rear drive cars and toe-out on front drive cars each resulting in parallel when driving.
 

Ian

Club Member
Front

Camber: 1.25 to 1.5 neg
Caster: 4 to 5 positive (even on both sides)
Toe: 0


Rear

Camber: 1.25 to 1.5 neg
Toe: 1/16" to 1/8" in



If you can find a good alignment guy who knows his shit you can go out for a drive after the initial setting and tell him how it feels, if they are good enough they will be able to adjust accordingly. Not many with these skills around though.
 

Turn & Burn

Club Member
Front

Camber: 1.25 to 1.5 neg
Caster: 4 to 5 positive (even on both sides)
Toe: 0


Rear

Camber: 1.25 to 1.5 neg
Toe: 1/16" to 1/8" in



If you can find a good alignment guy who knows his shit you can go out for a drive after the initial setting and tell him how it feels, if they are good enough they will be able to adjust accordingly. Not many with these skills around though.

Thats seems like a solid starting point all round. I was afraid going from current toe-in to toe-out (as per Jason’s post) in one fell swoop may be pushing it, but I’ll definitely feel the difference if I try it 1st.
I’ll pick a fine day and try your suspension settings and then all variations of toe-in / neutral / toe-out.
 

Woody928

Events Officer
Staff member
Club Member
I'm with Ian as a ballpark however its very subjective and down to personal preference.

I've got a fully adjustable setup and my car has been setup for fast road use. It is extremely responsive in terms of turn in, however I'm sure some would argue its a little too hairy at times. It was done by WIM in North West London, Charlie who manages the place teaches wheel alignment across the country and Gareth has learnt everything there is to know from him (Pagani send their cars to them to be setup, they're that good...).

I've changed this a few times however this was my initial setup with them below, you want to maximise the front caster as much as possible without interfering with your front valance which is the limiting factor.

IMG_5491 by Mark Woodrow, on Flickr

IMG_5492 by Mark Woodrow, on Flickr

I also think it gives the car a great stance, which is totally functional rather than these silly camber offsets...

DSCF9175 by Mark Woodrow, on Flickr
 

Turn & Burn

Club Member
I'm with Ian as a ballpark however its very subjective and down to personal preference.

I've got a fully adjustable setup and my car has been setup for fast road use. It is extremely responsive in terms of turn in, however I'm sure some would argue its a little too hairy at times. It was done by WIM in North West London, Charlie who manages the place teaches wheel alignment across the country and Gareth has learnt everything there is to know from him (Pagani send their cars to them to be setup, they're that good...).

I've changed this a few times however this was my initial setup with them below, you want to maximise the front caster as much as possible without interfering with your front valance which is the limiting factor.

IMG_5491 by Mark Woodrow, on Flickr

IMG_5492 by Mark Woodrow, on Flickr

I also think it gives the car a great stance, which is totally functional rather than these silly camber offsets...

DSCF9175 by Mark Woodrow, on Flickr
Really good info that, thankyou, it’s good to see some real data. Your caster figures still look low at target 2.5deg, but as you say this was initial data. I’m keen to see where I’m at with caster as I’ve already had comments that the wheels look to be pushed forward. I’ve got a kit that came from Mike Feeney so I presume this is having some effect.
 

Woody928

Events Officer
Staff member
Club Member
Really good info that, thankyou, it’s good to see some real data. Your caster figures still look low at target 2.5deg, but as you say this was initial data. I’m keen to see where I’m at with caster as I’ve already had comments that the wheels look to be pushed forward. I’ve got a kit that came from Mike Feeney so I presume this is having some effect.

Most welcome, it's hard to find good data over here, I got quite a bit of advice through from the US over Facebook from those more in the know.

I know we were being limited by how close we could get to the front valance on full lock. In this respect I'm sure wheel and tyre sizes will come into play to some degree as to how far you can go. I did have a look but I couldn't find my latest paperwork with final settings for reference.
 
the key point, is if you're building your car to be a 500bhp bruiser, it'll need to feel different to something made to demolish B roads with 180bhp etc.
 

Rob Gaskin

Treasurer
Staff member
Site Administrator
My blue 240 gave me issues with front valance clearance on lock (standard valance). The tyres were 215/60/15 a bit tall tbh. So I changed to 205/55/15 at the front - much better.

I also suspect Dave Jarman set the car up with max caster which he advises. Increased caster gives more stability in a straight line and heavy steering but also increases negative camber on the outside wheel when cornering which I assume is the main benefit.
 
Top