Brit govt threat to tweaked classics

SeanDezart

Well-Known Forum User
It better not, as it stands, it is exactly as it was approved by the UK legislation to be on the UK roads in 2018... unless your exhaust changes that, I may send it back :) I am hoping it is similar enough to be a "replacement" and not a "performance mod".
Just tugging you :D As for my exhaust, it conforms to the ultra strict German TUV - not had one refused yet nor in any other country whether that be in Europe or elsewhere so no fear there.

I would suspect most of this relates to non-historic vehicles.....................This may mean many of the club cars wont be allowed to be historic as they have been modified too much!

So, if later, a govt passes legislation to define and class historics (a kind of Classic V5) so as to seperate and exclude them from the new, stricter laws directed and applied to moderns from a certain date (2030 ?).....'modified' cars in some forms might not pass inspection to be reclassed ?

Engine swaps from the L-gata
induction improvements such as turbos, superchargers (assuming triples pass as period which I would expect)
Bodywork changes ie body-kits (I'd assume that half or full roll-cages will be accepted and most 'over-sized' wheels/tyre combos eg 17x9s if it can be proven that the speedo reads accurately)
Noise pollution
Certain levels of emissions

others ?
 

SeanDezart

Well-Known Forum User
does anyone want to buy foil to make some new hats?

this is all about future EV's. Aside from MAG or other setups trying to justify themselves.

You're perhaps correct about what it's about TODAY but this is how govts slip it to you slowly.....piece by piece*, putting a law into place and then passing amendments which gho through Parliament at midnight when most MPs can't be arsed to contribute and vote and the first time we know about it is if we have access to Hansards' !

All I'm saying here is REACT, comment on the govt site, contact your MPs, sign or begin the/a petition on the govt petition site and pass the link around. Don't anybody be apathetic or it'll be alright or someone else will fight our battle.....anything can get through Parliament now especially if environment-related - it's political suicide not to support any programme perceived to protect the planet......look at your congestion charges and AFzones or whatever.

*the slow blade perces the shield !
 
Last edited by a moderator:

TimFZ

Club Member
Just tugging you :D As for my exhaust, it conforms to the ultra strict German TUV - not had one refused yet nor in any other country whether that be in Europe or elsewhere so no fear there.

Good! Glad to hear it!

So, if later, a govt passes legislation to define and class historics (a kind of Classic V5) so as to seperate and exclude them from the new, stricter laws directed and applied to moderns from a certain date (2030 ?).....'modified' cars in some forms might not pass inspection to be reclassed ?

Engine swaps from the L-gata
induction improvements such as turbos, superchargers (assuming triples pass as period which I would expect)
Bodywork changes ie body-kits (I'd assume that half or full roll-cages will be accepted and most 'over-sized' wheels/tyre combos eg 17x9s if it can be proven that the speedo reads accurately)
Noise pollution
Certain levels of emissions

others ?

I suspect it will be significant whatever is changed but you may be right, different classes of "classics" such as resto mod types, wont be historic and will have to be re-classified in terms of current emissions for road use. (ie those with modern running gear etc), tasteful modification like brakes, body kits and L series engine changes may be allowed but not classed as historic under revised rules. Concourse or very close to that level of originality may have a different class and be allowed to remain "historic" due to the heritage and significance of retaining a few good ones. The industry is too big to be shut down completely and earns the government lots of cash, so in that respect, its a storm in a tea cup but you can bet your "bottom Euro" that it will cost us dearly to keep these things on the road!
 

SeanDezart

Well-Known Forum User
I suspect it will be significant whatever is changed but you may be right, different classes of "classics" such as resto mod types, wont be historic and will have to be re-classified in terms of current emissions for road use. (ie those with modern running gear etc), tasteful modification like brakes, body kits and L series engine changes may be allowed but not classed as historic under revised rules. Concourse or very close to that level of originality may have a different class and be allowed to remain "historic" due to the heritage and significance of retaining a few good ones.!

--------------------------------------

concourse
  1. 1.
    a large open area inside or in front of a public building.
    "a station concourse"
  2. 2.
    a crowd or assembly of people.
    "a vast concourse of onlookers"
concours
  1. an exhibition or parade of vintage or classic motor vehicles in which prizes are awarded for those in the best or most original condition.
    "condition is what counts: a concours Mark 1 will fetch more than a ropy Mark 2 six years its junior"
--------------------------------------

I firmly believe that upgrades for 'safety and security' reasons like brake and suspension kits, strut-braces + harnesses and roll-cages will be tolerated as will 'period' improvements such as triple carbs and injection upon L-series engines. Modern reliabability upgrades and replacing impossible-to-find-new-OEM parts for instance electronic ignition, after-market radiator, tyres, lights etc, etc I also see as being acceptable whilst conforming to a Classic-car MOT.

I strongly doubt that there will be several historic classes - too much bother, energy, specific controls etc. I can see this happening :

Modern cars = V5
30yrs and plus 'historic' cars = VH5 (historic)
Modern and historic closed-circuit-only cars : VC5 (competition)

Successive govts can then apply more and more strict rules upon whatever subject (emissions, noise, parking, city entry, road-tax, licence fees....etc) upon moderns whilst satisfying the Classic business world with the optional V5s.

They won't ban historic vehicules (too much uproad, lobbying and more specifically losing votes) but the ever stricter controls upon them whuilst classed as moderns with a normal V5 will severely limit their use, especially on public roads !

The cars immediately at risk are those performing rallies on public albeit it (in theory) closed roads !
Anybody here thinks that the govt is comfortable allowing Jack with his boosted 250+bhp Ford Escort rattling down country lanes at top speed - maybe the occupants are protected by in-date safety equipment but to spectators and anybody else on the route - it's an Exocet missile......and then these cars need to drive on open roads to the next stages....

Rallying is a great motorsport, every countrys' heritage.....but without the proper lobbying support - its days could be numbered.:(

..... The industry is too big to be shut down completely.........but you can bet your "bottom Euro" that it will cost us dearly to keep these things on the road!

The legacy of Thatcher - you can have whatever and whenver you like so long as you pay !

Classic cars'll become a rich-mans' toy in a rich-mans' playground - the demand for track-days will explode as will the tarifs.

If nobody here sees what's coming, your tin hats have slipped over yer eyes:rolleyes:
 

TimFZ

Club Member
--------------------------------------

concourse vs concours

Damn those extra typo e's, completely changes the meaning. Mind you a few extra U's dont help either.... like in Vehicule (vehicle) or Whuilst (whilst) - guessing these are also typos Sean? lol

Roll cages may not be allowed for typical road cars, they are hard and don't provide the soft cushioning of typical car interiors. I am guessing these are only any good if you have a bucket seat, helmet and 5 point harness as well...
 

richiep

Club Member
So, if later, a govt passes legislation to define and class historics (a kind of Classic V5) so as to seperate and exclude them from the new, stricter laws directed and applied to moderns from a certain date (2030 ?).....'modified' cars in some forms might not pass inspection to be reclassed ?

Engine swaps from the L-gata
induction improvements such as turbos, superchargers (assuming triples pass as period which I would expect)
Bodywork changes ie body-kits (I'd assume that half or full roll-cages will be accepted and most 'over-sized' wheels/tyre combos eg 17x9s if it can be proven that the speedo reads accurately)
Noise pollution
Certain levels of emissions

others ?

It's NOT going to happen. This is exactly the stuff that got everyone into a massive tizzy when the MOT changes occurred. It was dealt with due to the massive pushback and highlighting of all the issues it entailed - which the DVLA was entirely unequipped to handle. That is the key point - the govt (any British govt) and bureaucracy is not up to the task of managing such high levels of prescriptiveness. The paperwork, appeals, lawsuits, economic impact to specialist industry and jobs, etc., aren't worth their effort. Meaning it will not happen due to a fatal, high speed impact with reality.

Going over and over this stuff, just like happened during the MOT hoo-hah, is scaremongering IMO.
 

SeanDezart

Well-Known Forum User
It's NOT going to happen.
Going over and over this stuff, just like happened during the MOT hoo-hah, is scaremongering IMO.

I really hope not:unsure:, mind you - the entire nation believed that you were short on fuel at the pumps.....that was funny to watchEXTRA:D
 

TimFZ

Club Member
We knew we were not short of fuel, well, I wasn't, I don't drive anywhere unless I want to! hoarding Esso Ethanol free in my Z.... The media have a lot to answer for, as well as over fishing rights!
 

SeanDezart

Well-Known Forum User
Damn those extra typo e's, completely changes the meaning. Mind you a few extra U's dont help either.... like in Vehicule (vehicle) or Whuilst (whilst) - guessing these are also typos Sean? lol

Roll cages may not be allowed for typical road cars, they are hard and don't provide the soft cushioning of typical car interiors. I am guessing these are only any good if you have a bucket seat, helmet and 5 point harness as well...

Roll-cages may be allowed where airbags are not present as standard.....:unsure:

Whuilst (wasn't that ''during the meanwhilst' :jester:) I'll concede as a type but vehicule....thats me losing my English - hand in the air : https://translate.google.com/?hl=fr&sl=en&tl=fr&text=VEHICLE&op=translate






No-one commenting upon road rallies and their future then ?
 

Rob Gaskin

Treasurer
Staff member
Site Administrator
Ok to put the 'Cat' ha ha amongst the pigeons there should be (IMO) laws against modifying cars in specific areas e.g. removing Cats, ridiculous wheel/tyre fitments (sorry Datsfun) suspension without travel and untested brake mods.

Cars were modified to make them go, handle and stop better - these days cars are far more capable in all those areas.

All this could be 'picked up' at MOT inspections.

Also my pet hate - big objects dangling from interior mirrors.

I know I wouldn't have said this when I was younger but it makes sense now. In 'my day' people would drive after drinking a few pints (I've done it), chain-smoked in confined spaces (my boss did next to me) and let dogs foul pavements without a second thought.
 
Last edited:

SeanDezart

Well-Known Forum User
Ok to put the 'Cat' ha ha amongst the pigeons there should be (IMO) laws against modifying cars in specific areas e.g. removing Cats, ridiculous wheel/tyre fitments (sorry Datsfun) and suspension without travel and untested brake mods.

All this could be stopped at MOT inspections.

So could emissions excesses - mind out.

You've had a few modded Zs in your time and no doute others via your rally passion.
 

TimFZ

Club Member
Ok to put the 'Cat' ha ha amongst the pigeons there should be (IMO) laws against modifying cars in specific areas e.g. removing Cats, ridiculous wheel/tyre fitments (sorry Datsfun) and suspension without travel and untested brake mods.

All this could be stopped at MOT inspections.
Historic vehicles do not currently need MOT inspections.... however they could be re-introduced and it doesn't stop on the spot roadside checks. CATs from post 1991 by law, so S30, S130 and Z31 should be safe...
 
Last edited:

TimFZ

Club Member
Too busy filling them with refugee immigrants....maybe they could fish on your behalf ?EXTRA:D
You mean economic male migrants? All refugees should be considered if they enter through the proper channels (not the English Channel!). Once they have caught a fish, I'm sure we will give them a hand and tow them back to France.
 

Rob Gaskin

Treasurer
Staff member
Site Administrator
....................

You've had a few modded Zs in your time and no doute others via your rally passion.

Yes I have but none of my cars were anywhere near as capable as so many modern standard sports cars. It's not needed on modern cars - I don't think historic class cars will be 'hounded'.

I saw a Top Gear show once where Roger Clark's rally Escort Mk1 was waving it's front wheel in the air and a standard Focus RS Mk1 was 'trouncing' it. Quite an eye opener to me.
 
Last edited:

datsfun

Club Member
there should be (IMO) laws against modifying cars in specific areas e.g. removing Cats, ridiculous wheel/tyre fitments (sorry Datsfun) suspension without travel and untested brake mods.

So no range rover calipers on 505 discs, cut coil springs , mahoosive wide and tall tyres from a transit van, redrilled FORD PCD wolfrace slotmags...Samuri wouldn't exist in your world ?:D
 
Last edited:
Top