Brit govt threat to tweaked classics

[SeanDezart]

Don't be hood-winked into believing that this'll only apply to moderns....

Please discuss....politely chaps.


































and don't blame this one on Bruxelles either

 

[Alphabettispaghetti]

its all aimed at electric cars, ways that you can remove tracking/charging/road pricing/other info etc.

 

[arcdef]

yeah that article is very vague, if you read into the actual proposals its not really anything to do with the traditional modification scene.

 

[SeanDezart]

You're both missing my point (deliberately ?) in attempting to reassure yer mates

This is how 'they' start = put a law in place and then add to it....it might take 5-10years but that'll correspond with some vague, future date of zero concessions and vehicules conforming.

No govts really like old bangers now and with high emissions - not poltically correct and doesn't help new car sales.

 

[grb184]

We all have the opportunity to comment on this (especially the Tackling Tampering section which may impact on classic and vintage vehicles).

I would hope that the classic car scene could get an exemption for cars of a certain age, maybe those classed as Historic? If we don't comment and then these things happen, we might have only ourselves to blame.

Alternatively is it something we should ask the committee to draft a response on behalf of the club? as this may carry more weight

We could make a good case that we tend to upgrade parts where OEM are not available, for instance upgrading to disk brakes, utilisation of throttle bodies (for those who want to) which make our vehicles safer. Also restoration businesses where repairs are made to bodywork could be argued to increase the structural integrity of our cars and therefore have a positive impact on safety.

If you so wish, you can comment as per the instructions on the government website.

Future of transport regulatory review: modernising vehicle standards - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

 

[Rob Gaskin]

We all have the opportunity to comment on this (especially the Tackling Tampering section which may impact on classic and vintage vehicles).

I would hope that the classic car scene could get an exemption for cars of a certain age, maybe those classed as Historic? If we don't comment and then these things happen, we might have only ourselves to blame.

Alternatively is it something we should ask the committee to draft a response on behalf of the club? as this may carry more weight

We could make a good case that we tend to upgrade parts where OEM are not available, for instance upgrading to disk brakes, utilisation of throttle bodies (for those who want to) which make our vehicles safer. Also restoration businesses where repairs are made to bodywork could be argued to increase the structural integrity of our cars and therefore have a positive impact on safety.

If you so wish, you can comment as per the instructions on the government website.

Future of transport regulatory review: modernising vehicle standards - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

This Club is a paid-up member of the Federation of British Historic Vehicle Clubs (https://www.fbhvc.co.uk/) and they will 'be all over this' if it's relevant. I get their magazine and they cover legislation and DVLA issues, Fuel etc at great length and fight our corner.

I'll keep an eye on developments and report back.

 

[Bazzateer]

I believe the UK classic car industry is worth more than £10bn to the UK economy these days (and growing) so it has a fair bit of pull. It's rare for legislation to be retrospective so, as mentioned previously, this type of legislation is likely to apply to modern vehicles.

 

[SeanDezart]

I believe the UK classic car industry is worth more than £10bn to the UK economy these days (and growing) so it has a fair bit of pull. It's rare for legislation to be retrospective so, as mentioned previously, this type of legislation is likely to apply to modern vehicles.

Or it might be from a certain date in the future, say, when internal combustion sales will end :

Can I still drive a petrol car after 2030?

"The ban is for new car sales, meaning existing petrol and diesel vehicles will still be road legal beyond 2030. ... So, if you want to keep on driving a petrol or diesel car, you can, but you'll need to accept changing charges and regulations surrounding combustion vehicles."

Already the provision for it - legislation'll happen step by step, slowly eroding your freedoms and giving the classic-car industry a 'perceived' delay to reconvert.....

 

[SeanDezart]

This Club is a paid-up member of the Federation of British Historic Vehicle Clubs (https://www.fbhvc.co.uk/) and they will 'be all over this' if it's relevant. I get their magazine and they cover legislation and DVLA issues, Fuel etc at great length and fight our corner.

I'll keep an eye on developments and report back.

Why not have the Club be proactive on behalf of the membership and contact the FBHVC now for their view and comments on any short and long-term effects of proposed legislation ?

Is their magazine scanned and posted up here in the members-only section for the benefit of paid-up members ?

 

[Rob Gaskin]

Why not have the Club be proactive on behalf of the membership and contact the FBHVC now for their view and comments on any short and long-term effects of proposed legislation ?

Is their magazine scanned and posted up here in the members-only section for the benefit of paid-up members ?

Sean, trust me they will investigate this and give a response if appropriate (both in their mag and on their website)

Did you look at the link?

 

[TimFZ]

Possibly a good reason to keep your classic as original as possible.... Says the man still running on points.... Lol

 

[SeanDezart]

Sean, trust me they will investigate this and give a response if appropriate (both in their mag and on their website)

Did you look at the link?

Yes.

Tackling tampering
We will create new offences for tampering with a system, part or component of a vehicle intended or adapted to be used on a road. This will enable us to address existing gaps in the legislation, ensuring cleaner and safer vehicles. We will also create new offences for tampering with non-road mobile machinery (NRMM) and for advertising ‘tampering’ services or products.

This will strengthen our ability to enforce compliance in this area.

We are aware that the Law Commissions in both their first and third consultations on automated vehicles have considered tampering. We await their final recommendations and would welcome views on our proposals, as follows.

Specifically, we would look to create:

• a specific offence for supplying, installing and/or advertising, a ‘tampering product’ for a vehicle or NRMM – this would apply where a principal effect of the product is to bypass, defeat, reduce the effectiveness of or render inoperative a system, part or component (the product may be a physical part or component, hardware and/or software)
• a specific offence for removing, reducing the effectiveness of, or rendering inoperative a system, part or component for a vehicle/NRMM and advertising such services
• a specific offence for allowing for use or providing a vehicle or NRMM that has had the operations described in the previous 2 points performed on it

Tackling tampering
Overall, do you agree or disagree with the package of proposals stated? Why and what are your comments on any of the specific proposals?

We define a system, part or component as ‘software and/or hardware that impacts on the environment, road safety or security’. This would include examples such as those which assist or fulfil the driving task, control power, speed or emissions, protects road users or protects the vehicle from tampering.

Do you agree or disagree with this definition? If you disagree, why and how would you define it?

For our purposes, the scope of the measure is tampering with a system, part or component of a vehicle or NRMM. Provide any information on how widespread tampering is.

And this one : https://www.fbhvc.co.uk/search?q=tampering

looks like they haven't picked up on it yet - nothing mentioned in news either

Will you be posting up links to the FBHVC news and/or scanning their magazine to the members-only forum section ? I don't remember seeing anything there - from whence was the club a member for £30 a year please ?

 

[SeanDezart]

Possibly a good reason to keep your classic as original as possible.... Says the man still running on points.... Lol

Yours'll get banned for not conforming to original UK-MOT type-approved imports
1975 JDM Fairlady Z-L 2/2, GS30

 

[richiep]

As Rob says, the FBHVC will be all over this (like Rob, I’m a member), as will anyone associated with the tuning industry. I suspect the Parliamentary Classic Car group will have strong opinions too. This will get heavily qualified and watered down in wording before it gets anywhere near law.

There was the same end-of-days freak out over the MOT exemption and the associated issue about “susbstantially modified” classification. All that turned out to be a storm in a teacup, as will this.

 

[datsfun]

This will get heavily qualified and watered down in wording before it gets anywhere near law.

There was the same end-of-days freak out over the MOT exemption and the associated issue about “susbstantially modified” classification. All that turned out to be a storm in a teacup, as will this.

But our friendly neighbours will steal the idea and introduce it to their domestic legislation I bet ! ... Watch this space.

Can we pinn this thread- to be revisited in 2030 and compare who has adopted what ?

 

[SeanDezart]

As Rob says, the FBHVC will be all over this (like Rob, I’m a member), as will anyone associated with the tuning industry. I suspect the Parliamentary Classic Car group will have strong opinions too. This will get heavily qualified and watered down in wording before it gets anywhere near law.

There was the same end-of-days freak out over the MOT exemption and the associated issue about “susbstantially modified” classification. All that turned out to be a storm in a teacup, as will this.

I respect your optimism.

 

[SeanDezart]

But our friendly neighbours will steal the idea and introduce it to their domestic legislation I bet ! ... Watch this space.

Ninny - we already have sensible legislation in place for Classic cars and why there is a specific classic-car 'V5', orchestrated by the French Equivalent, the FFVE of which I'm a member :

https://ffve-jep.org/# this shows the collaboration with the French Ministry of Culture and the pan-European celebration of culture and 'patrimoine' (the latter of which includes classic, vintage and veteran vehicules along with ancient monuments) and scrolling down, one can see the regional representatives ever there to be contacted by phone or mail.

https://www.ffve.org/ the principal site portail. The federation has been in existence for +50years defending the rights of owners and professionals of everything from military vehicules, cars, mobylettes, buses, coaches, HGVs, earthworks machines and m-bikes.

https://www.ffve.org/IMG/pdf/formulaire-demande-attestation-ffve.pdf how to apply for a 'V5' Classic in the case of importing or registering a vehicule without a 'V5'.

Now go and also look at the info I shared at post no. 21 : https://zclub.net/community/index.php?threads/certificate-of-conformity.28719/page-2#post-332985

 

[TimFZ]

Yours'll get banned for not conforming to original UK-MOT type-approved imports
1975 JDM Fairlady Z-L 2/2, GS30

It better not, as it stands, it is exactly as it was approved by the UK legislation to be on the UK roads in 2018... unless your exhaust changes that, I may send it back I am hoping it is similar enough to be a "replacement" and not a "performance mod".

I would suspect most of this relates to non-historic vehicles so nothing except OEM or type approved parts should be used. For Historics, I am guessing they will tighten up on the "substantially modified" systems and as quoted, "safety, security and emissions" tampering should only be allowed if it exceeds the standard that was put on as new. That may mean you all have to refit your emissions control systems back on the cars, add security which is better such as improved locks, alarms and for safety, a tyre and brake system which is type approved replacement or better than the original. This may mean many of the club cars wont be allowed to be historic as they have been modified too much!

 

[Alphabettispaghetti]

does anyone want to buy foil to make some new hats?

this is all about future EV's. Aside from MAG or other setups trying to justify themselves.

 

[TimFZ]

Based on the comitments Boris is signing up to in COP26, I would guess any "emissions tampering" will be tightened up...