Brake Servo and Master Cylinder | The Z Club of Great Britain
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Brake Servo and Master Cylinder

Discussion in 'Hybrid Z cars' started by Russell, Apr 20, 2018.

  1. Russell

    Russell
    Z Club Member

    As many will know, I am currently converting my 260z to 1jz and this involves a huge amount of custom work. I am also trying to do it on a reasonably tight budget.
    Whilst stripping the car we realised that the brake master cylinder and the servo had pretty much had it so we might as well change it for a bigger, more modern one.
    The Brakes themselves are not being upgraded at the same time but will be within a year or so of it being back on the road.

    I have seen the BM44 Master Cylinder and Servo from a Skyline fitted which just needs the mounting holes and clevis modifying. The issue with this is that because they have the word "Skyline" in the title, they are expensive.

    Then there is the Hilux one. Mighty Car mods are using one from a Hilux but I have no information as to which model/year etc.

    Which leads me to my question that I hope someone can help with before I have a bit of an experiment -

    What are my options for a cheap and effective master cylinder and servo? I want it to be able to support upgraded brakes in the future.
    - Location of brake line connections isn't too important as i'm running new lines.
    - Mounting holes not too important as long as they don't foul on anything in the car I can drill new holes.
    - Modification of "things" to connect to the brake pedal isn't the end of the world (throttle pedal being cut up anyway)

    Any and every suggestion welcome
     
  2. IbanezDan51

    IbanezDan51
    Z Club Member

    Upgrade to a later brake servo and stick a tilton mastercylinder on. Worked fine with my 4 pot brembo fronts and twin pot rears.

    Dan
     
  3. IbanezDan51

    IbanezDan51
    Z Club Member

  4. Russell

    Russell
    Z Club Member

    I have seen that but it still uses a Servo from a 30 year old car, likely to be pretty expensive and hard to source.

    My thoughts were more along the lines of getting something out of a scrapped Nissan Primera or something for £30 and make it fit.
    Surely even the most basic modern one would do a better job than a 280zx one? Cars are heavier, generally have disks on the rear etc. now

    I don't know what the "gotchas" are though. ABS/Non-ABS? Master Cylinder size and outputs? Pedal Travel?
     
  5. AliK

    AliK
    Z Club Member
    Staff Member Moderator

    So, I would say given how light the car is, you don't need anything designed for a much heavier car unless you add ABS - which would be a great feature given the power you are aiming for.

    I did the Toyota Hilux conversion with the S12W callipers and Pug 505 vented front discs - the car was transformed and I would say it brakes 90% as well as both my Audis (losing 10% for lack of ABS). Despite having 2x 280zx M/Cs I kept the 15/16 master cyl, which produces more braking force and more pedal travel. I actually quite like the extra travel as it makes heel to toeing even easier. I've read the more modern Wilwood 1" isn't as good as the 280zx M/C as it's not got as nice a balance.

    This would cost you £80 delivered for a new reman item ...
    https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.co.uk/ulk/itm/232683066396

    Being the master tinkerer, are you considering a potential ABS solution?
     
  6. Jimbo

    Jimbo 1978 260z in yellow

    why not have a look at bmw, vw or audi master cylinder pretty much any can be made to fit you just need to match up the master cylinder diameter to suit, the bigger the diameter the more fluid it will push.
     
  7. AliK

    AliK
    Z Club Member
    Staff Member Moderator

    [QUOTE="Jimbo, post: 273252, member: the bigger the diameter the more fluid it will push.[/QUOTE]

    But surely also less pressure; as you are increasing the surface area. I.e.

    Pressure = Force / area

    So if you go more than 1" your pedal will need to be pressed a lot harder to achieve the same brake fluid pressure.
     
    Jimbo likes this.
  8. 240Z Man

    240Z Man Well-Known Forum User

    I have seen people using the Toyota Hilux servo but the one I would go for is a 300 ZX turbo master cylinder and servo
     
  9. Jimbo

    Jimbo 1978 260z in yellow

    But surely also less pressure; as you are increasing the surface area. I.e.

    Pressure = Force / area

    So if you go more than 1" your pedal will need to be pressed a lot harder to achieve the same brake fluid pressure.[/QUOTE]
    you are correct if you only change the master cylinder
    you will end up with less pressure if you use the origenal datsun servo so you will need to use the corrosponding servo to go with the bigger cylinder to give you the same if not more pressure.
    this is why you only have to breathe on modern brakes to be shot through the windscreen thanks to oversize servos.
    i have a mk4 master cylinder and servo in my vw scirocco which took the master cylinder from 19mm to 22mm diameter a common conversion, the servo is 1 inch bigger diameter and gives better braking with a firmer pedal so less pedal travel due to more fluid pushed.
     
  10. Russell

    Russell
    Z Club Member

    Looks like I am going for a Hilux Surf one. For the sole reason that a friend of mine is breaking one.

    Will see if I can get the Brake Calipers at the same time.
     
  11. LiamR

    LiamR
    Z Club Member

    Did you manage to get it to fit? I too saw the episode of MCM and spoke to turbo Yoda who told me that it was from a Hilux but from like a 92/93 I believe. If you pause the MCM video and do an Ebay search for Hilux MasterCyl and Servo you can see which one looks the same.

    Dont think they were TOO expensive tbh.
     
  12. Russell

    Russell
    Z Club Member

    Hi Liam,

    Honestly not even had the chance to go and get the Hilux one. I saw the MCM episode as well which gave me confidence.

    I will put more thought into it but ultimately under the bonnet is ending up so modified that I can find space for anything to fit so will keep my eye out. There is probably some mathematical formula out there somewhere to work out the best servo/master cylinder size based on callipers and weight of the car.
     
  13. Russell

    Russell
    Z Club Member

    Will update once I have checked it over and bolted it on but I went and bought a non ABS R33 Skyline master cylinder and Servo.

    I took so long getting round to sorting out the Hilux one, the car it was in was scrapped.

    Will work out the callipers at a later date.
     

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