Another high end car auction

SeanDezart

Well-Known Forum User
I would - just to have something cool and an investment............even if 99.9% did say 'nice Capri' or 'nice Porsche'.........
 

Albrecht

Well-Known Forum User
Get your 'sarcastic and spiteful' here, folks...

Some nice pictures, which are as close as I'm ever likely to get :cool::cool:

http://www.kenobrothers.com/auctions/1972-nissan-fairlady-z432

RIDDLER said:
It's just beyond me that. These are lovely cars, nobody thinks that more than me, but no way are they worth 130k in my opinion however special they might be. I mean, if I put that car alongside my own, which is probably worth 25k tops (in dollars), so much of what is there would be identical. Is it worth another 105k just to get this special version? I just can't see it myself. Yes that car is beautiful, it is concours, the engine is more powerful and it is a rare version. But at the end of the day it is still a Datsun S30.

STEVE BURNS said:
Every body is entitled to their opinion and IMHO no zed no matter what its history is worth that sort of money and any one who pays that is again in my opinion is doing so just to be like the "loads of money"caricature

Hammer price $152,000, plus commission and taxes.

This will obviously have an immediate effect on 260Z values (much of which are "identical"), although "...no zed no matter what its history is worth that..."

:insert tongue in cheek emoji here:
 

RIDDLER

Well-Known Forum User
Yea, more spitefulness and sarcasm as you correctly state. And as always you totally miss the point. I fully understand that some people will be prepared to spend $152.000 on such a car - I simply say that I would not. I can see why people would buy such a car as an investment, wrap it up in cotton wool and put it in a garage somewhere where no-one can even see it. But when I buy a car I buy it to drive it and if I was lashing out $152,000 I would not want a car on my driveway that LOOKS very similar to what I have already got except with a better engine, however rare it might be. I never ever claimed my basic 260 was as good as or as desirable as a 432. I simply said the 432 is not worth another $125,000 of MY MONEY (even if I had it).
 

datsfun

Club Member
£100k..sounds about right given the condition and perhaps not so original features on it. Hopefully the lucky new owner will enjoy his\her latest buy.

Do the sales of such top end models ultimately uplift the rest of the line up?
 

SeanDezart

Well-Known Forum User
Do the sales of such top end models ultimately uplift the rest of the line up?

Not directly - these cars are too unique, like expecting the sale of a C10 GTR to lift the price of a Cedric :rolleyes: but :

more and more awareness with another S30 in a top auction which can't avoid creating a desire ultimately satisfied with a 'lower-end' S30.......a 240 or even 260, 280Z.;)

Keeps them in the press' eyes too and at only £100k, perhaps the new owner will drive and enoy rather than mothball it !:unsure:

Sales like this might encourage others to sell - snowball effect ?:unsure::unsure: because I believe most change hands privately - not so Count ?
 

johnymd

Club Member
You really don't get it Riddler? Some of us on this forum just love zeds and the 432 or 432r are considered by us to be the ultimate zed. To us they are not just cars that you drive from A to B in. They are much more than that. To a lot of us these cars just get under our skin and its a shame this hasn't happened to you. I understand that your not a car enthusiast and to you its just a means of transport and you don't care or want to care about its heritage but when you come onto a car forum that's full of people that are passionate about this marque, then talk this way about the things we love. It's going to upset quite a few people.

I usually don't speak out like this but your general attitude towards the cars I love is really starting to wind me and a lot of people up.
 

Rob Gaskin

Treasurer
Staff member
Site Administrator
You really don't get it Riddler? Some of us on this forum just love zeds and the 432 or 432r are considered by us to be the ultimate zed. To us they are not just cars that you drive from A to B in. They are much more than that. To a lot of us these cars just get under our skin and its a shame this hasn't happened to you. I understand that your not a car enthusiast and to you its just a means of transport and you don't care or want to care about its heritage but when you come onto a car forum that's full of people that are passionate about this marque, then talk this way about the things we love. It's going to upset quite a few people.

I usually don't speak out like this but your general attitude towards the cars I love is really starting to wind me and a lot of people up.

Wow John that is shocking and very surprising coming from you. People are getting very personal on here and in fact what I would consider bullies.

And how can you say Riddler is not a car enthusiast?

I posted earlier this week for Sean and Alan to 'back-off' and encourage, since then they have continued and now you are joining in. A very worrying trend.
 

Albrecht

Well-Known Forum User
I posted earlier this week for Sean and Alan to 'back-off' and encourage, since then they have continued and now you are joining in. A very worrying trend.

Personally, I find this to be a far more worrying trend:

STEVE BURNS said:
Every body is entitled to their opinion and IMHO no zed no matter what its history is worth that sort of money and any one who pays that is again in my opinion is doing so just to be like the "loads of money"caricature

...and all the more so considering who it was written by, and his position in The Z Club.

Have you thought about its full implications?
 

RIDDLER

Well-Known Forum User
You really don't get it Riddler? Some of us on this forum just love zeds and the 432 or 432r are considered by us to be the ultimate zed. To us they are not just cars that you drive from A to B in. They are much more than that. To a lot of us these cars just get under our skin and its a shame this hasn't happened to you. I understand that your not a car enthusiast and to you its just a means of transport and you don't care or want to care about its heritage but when you come onto a car forum that's full of people that are passionate about this marque, then talk this way about the things we love. It's going to upset quite a few people.

I usually don't speak out like this but your general attitude towards the cars I love is really starting to wind me and a lot of people up.
Just astounded by that John. How you can say I am not a car enthuiast when you have not even met me I simply don't know. I have run classic cars for 15 years - nobody who owns and runs something as unusual as a Z could be anything other than a car enthusiast. If I just wanted something to get me from A to B I would have a Ford Fiesta. I love and cherish my car and ensure it is maintained to a high standard. I do not mean to be disparaging about the 432 at all and I am sorry if anyone has taken offence. I think it is a stunning car and on the video it sounds absolutely amazing. I just find the price surprising that is all I originally said.
 
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Rob Gaskin

Treasurer
Staff member
Site Administrator
Personally, I find this to be a far more worrying trend:



...and all the more so considering who it was written by, and his position in The Z Club.

Have you thought about its full implications?

Have you thought about the implications of you constantly harassing people. There are some very aggressive posts and IMO we should have 'moderated' them before things have got this far.

I'm going off the site now to get on with stuff and consider how to respond.
 

Albrecht

Well-Known Forum User
Yea, more spitefulness and sarcasm as you correctly state. And as always you totally miss the point.

Irony upon irony. The "spitefulness and sarcasm" I was referring to was contained in the two posts I quoted from you and Steve Burns. Apparently quoting your own words back at you is also spiteful and sarcastic?

RIDDLER said:
I fully understand that some people will be prepared to spend $152.000 on such a car - I simply say that I would not. I can see why people would buy such a car as an investment, wrap it up in cotton wool and put it in a garage somewhere where no-one can even see it.

What on earth makes you think that the buyers of such cars buy them solely as 'investments' and then never drive them? I know many, many owners of 432s - and even a couple of exponentially rarer 432Rs - who DRIVE and ENJOY them on a regular basis. They probably do more mileage than you do. My friend 'Kats' Endo drives his superb early 1970 PS30 all the time on mainland Japan, and even took it to the USA for one of the conventions. A few weeks ago it was on display - for all to see - at a new motor museum in Osaka. Kats drove it there - a long way from home - and drove it back home again when the display had finished. Another friend with a PS30-SB 432R drives it all over Japan to any number of events, probably clocking up more Km in a month than you do in a year. These people are enjoying their cars, and enjoying the vicarious pleasure of showing them to others. They 'get it'.

RIDDLER said:
I never ever claimed my basic 260 was as good as or as desirable as a 432.I simply said the 432 is not worth another $125,000 of MY MONEY (even if I had it).

First of all, you pretty much did exactly that. Secondly, you are implying that the 432 is overvalued/overpriced/changing hands at figures which it does not justify, and yet you know next to nothing about them. As has been stated many times, the prices such cars change hands for is a function of rarity, desirability, practicality and a little bit of magic. It's not any kind of conspiracy, and many of them still get used and enjoyed to the full. The car in question (as evidenced by its modifications) was rebuilt to be driven.

The prices we are talking about are still low in comparison with some of the 432s contemporaries, examples of which are far more numerous (Porsche 911S / RS I'm looking at you) and in fact I believe they are at this point undervalued.
 

SeanDezart

Well-Known Forum User
The prices we are talking about are still low in comparison with some of the 432s contemporaries, examples of which are far more numerous (Porsche 911S / RS I'm looking at you) and in fact I believe they are at this point undervalued.

There are a finite number of cars available and which remain after +40years.

I guess that as we occidentals never saw these cars in the flesh, it's therefore difficult to covet them for their magic and a desirability has only derived from more and more internet exposure.......and there is no substitute for smelling a car and running one's fingertips along.....

.....just as looking at the pretty picture in a mag or on screen don't replace Anne Hathaway and (not or ;)) Bridget Moynahan (two of my current favourites) in MY bed !
 

Albrecht

Well-Known Forum User
Have you thought about the implications of you constantly harassing people. There are some very aggressive posts and IMO we should have 'moderated' them before things have got this far.

I'm going off the site now to get on with stuff and consider how to respond.

Then please take time to consider that the posts I am replying to question the very core of our hobby's existence. If a senior member of the UK's biggest single marque enthusiasts club for the Z actually believes what I quoted, then our hobby is in deep trouble.

If the first generation Z - in all its forms - is going to be limited by such a philosophy, completely out of step with its contemporaries, then something is deeply wrong. The fall out will be lower valuations, less chance of reproduction parts, specialists who are unable to make a profit from catering for the cars and - ultimately - the quality of restorations and cars on the road going down because the perception is that "they are not worth it".

I've spent something like 20 years trying to get people in this country and others to understand the truth about the S30-series Z family and its rightful place in the wider classic car scene. At some points it's been a struggle to pull it out of the hands of the inverted snobbery of 'Jap ****', but I thought we were starting to get there. Was I wrong? Sometimes I get a glimpse of the Z Club of old, and it isn't pretty.

Petty squabbles are one thing and are usually soon forgotten, but a basic philosophical difference about the cars - apparently unchangeable - is a far deeper worry for me.
 
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