Alignment question | The Z Club of Great Britain
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Alignment question

Discussion in '240Z / 260Z / 280Z' started by Mick Cliff, Aug 30, 2016.

  1. Mick Cliff

    Mick Cliff
    Z Club Member

    Visited my local Kwik-Fit today with a view to getting a "Hunter Hawkeye" computer alignment check and wheels balanced....
    The helpful guys couldn't find any data relevant to my 240Z, so were unable to carry out the requested computer alignment.
    Wheels were balanced successfully though and at no charge because they couldn't do the alignment! Result!
    Chatting with them we managed to go through their computer data to see what info they had on file and I noted that they held data for 260z's
    So the question is - is the 260Z alignment data the same as a 240Z?
     
  2. Rob Gaskin

    Rob Gaskin Treasurer Staff Member Moderator

    Are you talking about 'toe-in' i.e. front wheel tracking here?

    If not nothing else is adjustable to the general garage anyway.
     
  3. Mick Cliff

    Mick Cliff
    Z Club Member

    That's all I wanted Rob - the toe-in checking. But their computerised system demands the far end of a fart in terms of pre-programmed information.
    I'm thinking that I'll need get the fishing lines out and do it myself, the 'old skool' way!
     
  4. Nigel Brook

    Nigel Brook Well-Known Forum User

    Any good tyre fitting company can do your toe-in adjustment, (Kwik fit not my favourite). Toe in 2-5mm according to Haynes.
     
  5. johnymd

    johnymd
    Z Club Member

    2 - 5mm - Good info to know. I usually just do it by eye, looking down the front tyre to the back and put a little toe-in. I probably put too much on so will know better next time. I'm guessing that's with the car fully loaded on the ground as jacking it up a little will effect it.
     
  6. Rob Gaskin

    Rob Gaskin Treasurer Staff Member Moderator

    So Kwik-fit are unable to set the toe-in - amazing.

    I have just googled it and got full suspension geometry settings in about 4 seconds!!!!!

    I do my own with a friends alignment tool - basically an adjustable bar with shaping to miss the sump. It's a professional tool but quite simple.

    John you need to set your car up properly (corner weights too) especially with big tyres and adjustable suspension.

    I think as a general rule rear drive cars toe-in at the front, front drive cars toe-out. When they are being driven the wheels are pretty parallel due to the forces acting on them e.g. front drive tends to pull the wheels in at the front, rear splays them out due to drag. That may be a load of rubbish but it makes sense to a simple guy like me.
     
  7. johnymd

    johnymd
    Z Club Member

    I must be simple then Rob as it sounds right to me too.
     
  8. Mr.F

    Mr.F
    Z Club Member
    Staff Member Moderator

    5mm toe-in seems a lot to me.Clymer manual lists different values across the models:

    240Z 1.59 - 5.56mm (!)
    260Z 2 - 5mm (as quoted above)
    280Z 0 - 3mm (equivalent to late 260Z)
    280ZX 1 - 3mm (my favoured range for all models, usually nearer to 1mm)
     
  9. Albrecht

    Albrecht Well-Known Forum User

    Factory service manual quotes Toe-In as 2 to 5mm without load, and 0 to 3mm with standard load.

    Why anyone would trust a Clymer manual over the Factory service manual is beyond me...
     
  10. johnymd

    johnymd
    Z Club Member

    This may be a stupid question but is this total or each side? Could you just round up the 1.59 to 2mm (1mm each side) or keep it at 0.795mm each side? Also, is it measured at the wheel rim face or tyre and if the tyre then at what point on the tyre? If you have bigger wheels/tyres then do you increase the size differential?

    or do we just set the car up with a little toe-in and go drive the thing?
     
  11. Albrecht

    Albrecht Well-Known Forum User

    The figures are total, but are reliant on the factory steering angles ('In' and 'Out') being correct, and the steering correctly centred.

    It also relates to the other factory stock settings (strut length, coil spring, damper, wheels & tyres) so if anything is not stock you're pretty much on your own with what you find works best - and/or prefer - anyway.
     
  12. uk66fastback

    uk66fastback
    Z Club Member

    I don't think that being a hundredth out is gonna make a whole lot of difference!

    Sounds good to me!
     
  13. Mick Cliff

    Mick Cliff
    Z Club Member

    They couldn't do the toe in check because they had no baseline data to work from. Computers huh?!
    Even with the data they would have struggled I think, as the car is lowered, has non standard wheels (15", not 14", and 7" wide) so there is no baseline to work from!

    A quick DIY check this morning suggests I have toe out rather than toe in so I'll have to get my old body under the car and tweak it :unsure:

    Thanks for all your replies :thumbs:
     
  14. Rob Gaskin

    Rob Gaskin Treasurer Staff Member Moderator

    Ok but at least they should have looked on the internet and seen that it should toe-in and done a basic check to see what you actually had.
     
  15. Mick Cliff

    Mick Cliff
    Z Club Member

    I agree entirely..... but in this modern age it seems that if it's not on their computer it can't be done! :rolleyes:

    Reminds me of an experience in Halfrauds a few years ago...
    Me: Do you stock feeler gauges:
    Halfrauds: Blank expression followed by 'What car is it for?'
    Me: Doesn't matter which car
    Halfrauds: Unless I have the car details I can't look it up on the computer

    :eek: Sometimes I despair
     
  16. Rob Gaskin

    Rob Gaskin Treasurer Staff Member Moderator

    Yes and that's why they are considering doing away with MoT Tests for ALL Historic Class cars i.e. they don't know what they are looking for.

    I service my own cars including modern cars like my 370Z. I often get told that modern cars are too difficult to service, well in my experience a routine service is easy on a modern car. Look at a service schedule and see what they actually have to do! Ok if there are faults or plugs to change (not very often) that can be more involved but 95% of it is inspection.

    There are not many of your 'Terry Taylors' around these days.
     
  17. richiep

    richiep
    Z Club Member

    Reminds me of the story I related last time the weakness of MOT testers came up - Dave Holland's 240Z failing an MOT because the tester said its brake system warning light was on... the switch under the handbrake was sticking.

    Chris (Vega) Roberts had issues just before Oulton too. The car he came in was MOTed but the testers then succeeded in rendering it unable to start after the test. He got it going but had to limp home and have a play around to get it behaving again. He thinks they basically flooded it! Apparently, they had no idea about carbs. Can't imagine the manual choke was used right either!

    Mechanical understanding of modern "mechanics" (at least in the mass market serving the cars-as-white-goods market) appears to be limited...
     
  18. datsfun

    datsfun
    Z Club Member

    Precisely why I will only take my cars to select MOT test stations. Those who have good working knowledge of pre 1980 cars.
     
  19. franky

    franky
    Z Club Member

    Johnny, I struggle to believe you've got adjustable arms and everything on your car, yet just line it up by eye!? I guess this is a joke or you've some sort of laser line vision!?

    If you measure from the wheel you can set your toe never mind how lowered it is.
     
  20. johnymd

    johnymd
    Z Club Member

    Franky - it was all setup in a logical way by myself and has been tweeked quite a bit over the last 5 years to a point where I'm really happy with how it drives and handles.
     

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