260Z Project - 260Z GT-R

[Ian]

I can't use a 240Z though or thousands of pounds worth of parts, lots of them custom made will not fit.

One other problem is its cost me £5500 to get this shell to this stage of the resto, aside from that money pretty much being flushed down the toilet, it would be another £5000+ to get a new shell to that stage before any work even starts to convert to RHD, strengthen the chassis and repair any rust.


It could be made into a show car even with this shell, given that it looked perfect before I started this work, so at least it could be made to be cosmetically perfect on the surface. I'm sure Resto shack will be able to repair the metal work on this chassis so that you'd hardly know, but at what cost?

 

[Rob Gaskin]

Ian, take your time to decide. Don't spend any more money yet, consolidate. Will your restorer 'store' it for you for a short-term?

I'm guessing finances are influencing your thoughts - understandably.

Another task in the 'down-time' perhaps is to add-up the saleable value of everything you have. Could you save money by selling i.e. will you lose less by 'cutting your loses' rather than spending. Not something you want to do but..........

 

[IbanezDan51]

I can't use a 240Z though or thousands of pounds worth of parts, lots of them custom made will not fit.

One other problem is its cost me £5500 to get this shell to this stage of the resto, aside from that money pretty much being flushed down the toilet, it would be another £5000+ to get a new shell to that stage before any work even starts to convert to RHD, strengthen the chassis and repair any rust.


It could be made into a show car even with this shell, given that it looked perfect before I started this work, so at least it could be made to be cosmetically perfect on the surface. I'm sure Resto shack will be able to repair the metal work on this chassis so that you'd hardly know, but at what cost?

What bits do you have that can’t be used on a 240Z? Suspension etc is all interchangeable so long as you use all the later parts.

 

[IbanezDan51]

As far as I can tell everything you’ve bought will interchange does long as you use everything from the 280Z...

you then also have the added factor of having a potentially more valueable 240Z over a later S30 (haters gonna hate) although I’m not sure extremely modified cars would change this premium.

As Rob says, have a long think about it. Can your bodywork place not give you a completed cost? So you can weigh up your options more.

 

[Ian]

As far as I can tell everything you’ve bought will interchange does long as you use everything from the 280Z...

Taking about a 240Z I'm sure all the suspension parts could be made to fit, as could the fuel tank. Fitting an R200 to a 240Z probably isn't that hard either. Intercooler and radiator however wouldn't fit, I'd need different gearbox and engine mounts, dash and centre console wouldn't fit. I guess that would be it.

Value doesn't matter to me, its going to be nowhere near original and I wouldn't plan to sell it.

Ian, take your time to decide. Don't spend any more money yet, consolidate. Will your restorer 'store' it for you for a short-term?

I'm guessing finances are influencing your thoughts - understandably.

They will store it for a small cost each month if I want.

If I was rich none of this would matter, it could either be repaired or a good new shell needing practically no work could be bought and finished. Unfortunately I am not so if one option can save me a lot of money then thats the one that makes sense.

Another task in the 'down-time' perhaps is to add-up the saleable value of everything you have. Could you save money by selling i.e. will you lose less by 'cutting your loses' rather than spending. Not something you want to do but..........

In that case I could have saved a ton of money by never owning a Datsun. If I sell everything I loose a lot of money, if I get a car back on the road I loose money, but at least I have a good driveable S30.

 

[Alphabettispaghetti]

I wouldn’t worry about a ‘show car’ what ever that is. Lots of cars worse than yours are shoe winners

 

[Rob Gaskin]

Ian, this is a Z body-shell dilemma that lots of us face. I think that your problem is compounded by the fact that you have already spent a lot of time and money on this car and you have met the problem at the end and also the scale of the problem was unexpected.

You are a great engineer and a perfectionist so you want everything to be 'right'. That is why you have gone looking for body issues and these Zs can bite back. Derrick (candyred) bought a 260 that I'm sure he thought was reasonable but on inspection was far from it. However he is repairing his car himself and you are having a professional job done - hence the money issues.

I had a 240 that had a poor body but it had an MoT and was all I could afford. After 2 years I removed the engine to rebuild it and the body-shell issues became very apparent. I repaired the car myself but it was off the road for over 4 years however the cost was minimal but a huge time commitment but it gave me a lot of satisfaction. However I didn't go looking for more issues than the pressing ones and to be honest a 'blasting' would have presented me with a car that I couldn't afford to fix. I ran the car for many enjoyable years (12?) after that BUT it was very tatty and there is no way you could live with it.

We are all different and I THINK you want a car that's A1. Times have changed and so have values.

I think you want to keep your car and have it repaired, I can understand that and if it's done well the end result will be a car that will be valuable i.e. a UK RHD 260 that has a very good body and paint-job (but repaired like most UK cars).

If you import a very good, late 260 shell from the states and convert to RHD it might be about the same cost but will be a 'nicer' and better shell under the paint (but converted). It should be worth about the same as your car repaired.

If you import a 280Z that will be a bit of an unknown value-wise but probably easier to source.

Any RHD conversion needs to be done legally to avoid any issues.

So if you don't have any 'cash' at the moment hang on to your 260 and save. In the meantime also keep and eye on what US cars become available (must be very good body though). Of course if you were starting 'afresh' you would go for a rust-free car.

Just my thoughts but you did ask. ;-)

 

[strugrat]

I'm considering scrapping this project. Its back from blasting and its uncovered terrible repair jobs everywhere, its a disgrace. While I have seen far worse S30's repaired this is well beyond what I was expecting and is likely to add at least £10k onto the total, not sure I can afford it.



All this will need done:

Wheel arches
Outer wheel tubs
Rear lower panel
Quarter panels
Fuel filler area
Both areas where the rear quarters meet the boot
Both sills badly fitted and welded the length rather than spot welded in
Badly joined A and B pillars
Bulkhead where steering rack is attached
Floor pans
Doors
Windscreen and lower a pillars
Even the by needs some work although its minimal.



Is it even worth repairing?

I'll post some photos soon.

I feel your pain. As to whether it worth it that's up to you.
I wouldn't do a project like mine again, I do enjoy driving around in it now its finished though.

 

[Rob Gaskin]

Just had a quick look. I wonder how rust-free this is:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1975-Datsun-Z-Series/143415525808?hash=item21643b41b0:g:VH8AAOSwPGBdqk5F

 

[uk66fastback]

Just had a quick look. I wonder how rust-free this is:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1975-Datsun-Z-Series/143415525808?hash=item21643b41b0:g:VH8AAOSwPGBdqk5F

Don't even go there imo. Seller himself says: "I put almost no effort into getting down to how bad the rust and deterioration are, I don't want to know, and I hurt my back. I'm not going to get into a position to look. Bid knowing that. It runs, but it could be rusted beyond repair."

This pic sums this car up for me.

I feel for you, I really do. The metal these things were made of is was so thin, any decent blasting was going to show it warts n' all. I don't know the history of your car from when you got it but if you bought it in decent nick chances were it had been previously repaired being a UK car. But the $64,000 question is always by whom and how well.

You have a RHD UK car with a UK VIN - that is worth quite a lot. My first reaction would be to keep the car - I know it looks frightening but you're in this quite deep now and while it is pretty disheartening to uncover what you have, if you're going to keep it and aim to have a useable 260 at the end of it, the positivity has to start now.

Have a word with your restorer and ask them for some real-world prices to make this poor work into something you would accept. It's never going to be an unwelded shell so bring the expectations down slightly. You know the car looked damn good pre-accident - you want the same level of finish again, but you want the underpinnings, while not show quality, to be safe and up to standard. A lot of the poor work can be remedied as to me, it just looks like some of the post-welding finishing wasn't done at all well.

Obviously things like the rear 3/4 and the floors are another kettle of fish. But they are problems that can be overcome - gonna cost a few £££ though. At long as you're not after the car back on the road in a year, you'll be fine.

KEEP THE STRENGTH!

 

[Ian]

Ian, this is a Z body-shell dilemma that lots of us face. I think that your problem is compounded by the fact that you have already spent a lot of time and money on this car and you have met the problem at the end and also the scale of the problem was unexpected.

Yes, if I had known about these issues before spending the money on this shell I would have re shelled.

You are a great engineer and a perfectionist so you want everything to be 'right'. That is why you have gone looking for body issues and these Zs can bite back. Derrick (candyred) bought a 260 that I'm sure he thought was reasonable but on inspection was far from it. However he is repairing his car himself and you are having a professional job done - hence the money issues.

I would love to be able to do more work myself, but my situation just doesn't allow it. I'm hoping in the future to have another long term car project which I will be able to do gradually by myself in my garage. Its unlikely to need as much metal work as a Datsun though.



I've talked with Dave at Resto Shack today and it looks like we will be repairing this shell, given the cost to get a new shell to this stage it doesn't make sense financially and Dave isn't worried about being able to repair it, only part that will be a test for him is the RH quarter section. Metal work won't be starting until early Jan probably as they hadn't planned to be doing so much. If anyone knows where a decent RH side quarter section is available then let me know, I think its unlikely but I have seen them come up before the odd time.

Since there is so much work going on I am considering going bumper-less on the rear and fitting custom rear arches, will still look close to stock but will allow a slightly wider tyre.


I build my cars for me and don't plan to sell it, plus its not exactly an original car with the RB anyway so I'm not really concerned about opinions. A lot of people seem to worry a lot about value, but for me if you do this too much then it takes away the passion of a car project, I try and leave the worry about values to my daily driver cars.

You can be sure I will leave the metal work in as close to perfect as possible, and by the time its done it will be more structurally sound than when it left the factory. The photos taken throughout the restoration will be proof of this.

If you import a very good, late 260 shell from the states and convert to RHD it might be about the same cost but will be a 'nicer' and better shell under the paint (but converted). It should be worth about the same as your car repaired.

Lets see how Resto Shack leave it, you might find the shell will be pretty good and it will certainly be much better than a lot of the cars out there that could be hiding unknown potential problems.

 

[Rob Gaskin]

Yeh, I knew you wanted to 'save' it.

 

[Alphabettispaghetti]

why don't you get a shell to use for donor panels, so you're not spending so much on their 'time'. you know, get doors, front clip, rear 3/4 sections etc?

 

[Ian]

Yeh, I knew you wanted to 'save' it.

I would re shell if it made financial sense, but it doesn't. So might as well keep another on the road.

why don't you get a shell to use for donor panels, so you're not spending so much on their 'time'. you know, get doors, front clip, rear 3/4 sections etc?

Only parts I would need are the rear quarter sections. Would make sense if I could get a shell that had rust free quarters for the right price. Not sure about importing but sure there are plenty on here that could offer advice.

 

[Ian]

" http://instagr.am/p/B37jK2bndBc/ "

 

[strugrat]

I would re shell if it made financial sense, but it doesn't. So might as well keep another on the road.




Only parts I would need are the rear quarter sections. Would make sense if I could get a shell that had rust free quarters for the right price. Not sure about importing but sure there are plenty on here that could offer advice.

I needed RH and LH quarter panels (plus loads of others) and ended up importing used panels from Z Car Source based in Arizona. The panels were not perfect but much better than any other options. I would use them again.

 

[richiep]

I needed RH and LH quarter panels (plus loads of others) and ended up importing used panels from Z Car Source based in Arizona. The panels were not perfect but much better than any other options. I would use them again.

I was going to suggest that as an option - looking at somewhere like Z Car Source for panels rather than going as far as a shell. Obviously Ryan has first hand experience of that actual process though!

One thing to remember when you are looking for 1/4 panels from the US is you will need 240Z or early (i.e. late-73-74.5) 260Z panels, not 74.5 onwards 260Z or 280Z as they are different due to the lack of bumper indents on the sides. Of course, if you do decide to de-bumper the rear, that later style might actually be desirable.

 

[johnymd]

It is terrifying how bad these cars look when you reveal 40+ years of repairs. I would say this is probably typical of most of the UK zeds driving around today.

I would probably be the first to say just get another shell but late 260z cars are not easy to find. The next one may be just as bad when to take it back to its bones. It's very easy to look at the repairs and call then all bad but the first thing I'd be considering is the structural ones. I would take my time and look over the car and list every repair or part that needs repairing. Then analyse each one individually. Then talk to retro shack and go through your list to get their views on what to do with each area and try to come up with costs. I think you will then be in a better position to know which way to go. I think I would probably get it repaired if I was in your position but I would pay the most attention to structural repair and then get away with a skim of filler over the other areas. This car is to be enjoyed as much as looked at so as long as what lies beneath is structural then save it.

 

[chris frizzell]

sorry to see you in such a pain hope it all sorts it self out . in know you say your going to fix your original car and that is probebly the way i would go . but just out of interest there a 280z with low milage on ebay for £6995 but its a auto which may be good for you to reduce the price . worth a look and you could always flog all the bits you dont need to recoupe the main cost may get 50% back .all the best Chris

 

[chris frizzell]

sorry not great with the old computers but its for sale from all american inports Nailsea californial car so good chance not a lot off tin worm