240Z resurrection

tyroguru

Club Member
A key risk when removing rotted floors and replacing them is that when one is out, the sheet metal of the tunnel contracts, pulling away from where it was. If you fit your new floors with the tunnel side in this position, without any tension on it, when you come to fit the crossmember further down the line, you could find that it won’t fit, causing proper problems...

Yeah, I've been worried about slight movement either way in the trans tunnel. The jig I built has a support section that bolts into the gearbox mount so there is support in there at the minute. I tried to be careful around this support section as I didn't want much force being put through there with the floor being cut out as it seemed to me that it might be possible to push the tunnel out slightly if there was. I therefore did my best to ensure that this section is very lightly loaded and is just holding the tunnel in shape - I guess time will tell though if I've done that well enough.
 

tyroguru

Club Member
As advised above I thought I'd reattach the seat mount before moving on to the drivers side floor and as with pretty much every job on the car this turned out to take much longer than I thought. There were a few holes in the transmission tunnel to be welded up and a couple in the inner sill but not surprisingly the majority of the time was taken on the seat mount. The mount itself is in very good condition but flange that attaches to the sill was looking a bit sorry for itself - mainly owing to the battering I gave it to take it off... I welded a few holes up in the seat mount and they were fine but the flange was just a mess so I cut a section out and made a new piece - I love that bead roller!

Sorry but I forgot to get any pics as I went along today so just one at the end of the day (and not even a good one at that). I've just tacked it in at the minute really but it seems to be in pretty well in so good enough for now.

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tyroguru

Club Member
Finally managed to pull my finger out and get the drivers floor pan finished. Well, not really finished but good enough now to move on from the floor to the firewall and battery tray area. This side generally went a lot smoother than the passenger side as the toe board was in a pretty good state and just needed slight reshaping.

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I was as a bit lazier when preparing the seat support as I managed to get away with just replacing the tabs and so I didn't have to form any edges (hopefully you can make out what I'm talking about from the photos below):

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After blasting and priming it turned out pretty well. As before, some of the plug welds are pretty poor but I think they'll clear up OK and when I get better it on a rotisserie again I'll finish them all off. Hopefully with the ones that are done and the seat support it in should be fine.

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Next I plan to move onto the firewall/battery tray area which should be a good challenge!
 

tyroguru

Club Member
(Note: if I have called the "mud guard" the wrong name in the text below, please tell me the correct name for it!)

It's been slow going for the last few months and while I have been doing bits at the weekends it's been nothing to write home about. As the floor is (kind of) in I have moved to the engine bay to sort out the battery tray area. The battery tray and the inner wing area has already been chopped out as has a part of the chassis rail so I started on the firewall. Here's a before photo:

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You can see that the the rainbow of rust carries across the bottom of the firewall area into the flanges of the firewall and the mud guard (seems to be called that in the Nissan parts diagrams I think). Obviously the inner wing was rusted in that area but that's already been chopped out.

A view from the back of the mud guard showing the areas of rust that I have replaced which hopefully makes the next description make more sense!

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I purchased a firewall repair panel from Andy at Auto Panel Solutions which he's designed so that you cut out the firewall about an inch from the wing/pillar and fit it there. However, that didn't quite work for me as I wasn't going to leave those flanges in that state so what I did was to cut the bad metal out of the flanges and the mud guard and form some new pieces for them. I then constructed a small "extension" piece for the APS panel to create a flange for that piece where it could be welded into the existing good metal. The new piece for the mud guard was OK form as its just some shrinking along both edges of a 90 deg folded piece. However, I'm not pleased with the welding on the mud guard side as the metal was paper thin and the fit wasn't excellent so I kept punching holes and I have a few pin holes to deal with (seriously though - the metal is like tissue paper at points!). Here's an image of the better side :) :

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Here's the APS firewall section with a bolted on flange:

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And here's it tacked in:

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I have to say that I really, really struggled getting that panel fitted well with good gaps to weld into. I haven't tidied it all up yet but I think it's come out kind of OK:

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I've started on the chassis rail and forming an inner skin as suggested by Andy so I'll post about that shortly.
 

candy red

Club Member
(Note: if I have called the "mud guard" the wrong name in the text below, please tell me the correct name for it!)

It's been slow going for the last few months and while I have been doing bits at the weekends it's been nothing to write home about. As the floor is (kind of) in I have moved to the engine bay to sort out the battery tray area. The battery tray and the inner wing area has already been chopped out as has a part of the chassis rail so I started on the firewall. Here's a before photo:

View attachment 44354

You can see that the the rainbow of rust carries across the bottom of the firewall area into the flanges of the firewall and the mud guard (seems to be called that in the Nissan parts diagrams I think). Obviously the inner wing was rusted in that area but that's already been chopped out.

A view from the back of the mud guard showing the areas of rust that I have replaced which hopefully makes the next description make more sense!

View attachment 44357


I purchased a firewall repair panel from Andy at Auto Panel Solutions which he's designed so that you cut out the firewall about an inch from the wing/pillar and fit it there. However, that didn't quite work for me as I wasn't going to leave those flanges in that state so what I did was to cut the bad metal out of the flanges and the mud guard and form some new pieces for them. I then constructed a small "extension" piece for the APS panel to create a flange for that piece where it could be welded into the existing good metal. The new piece for the mud guard was OK form as its just some shrinking along both edges of a 90 deg folded piece. However, I'm not pleased with the welding on the mud guard side as the metal was paper thin and the fit wasn't excellent so I kept punching holes and I have a few pin holes to deal with (seriously though - the metal is like tissue paper at points!). Here's an image of the better side :) :

View attachment 44356


Here's the APS firewall section with a bolted on flange:

View attachment 44358

And here's it tacked in:

View attachment 44359

I have to say that I really, really struggled getting that panel fitted well with good gaps to weld into. I haven't tidied it all up yet but I think it's come out kind of OK:

View attachment 44360

I've started on the chassis rail and forming an inner skin as suggested by Andy so I'll post about that shortly.

Great work there the last pictures of your firewall repair and putting the 90 degree flange on the panel andy supplied is exactly what I’m going to do and the make up the inner wing repair piece under where battery tray sits but first I’ve got some major work to do.
Good luck with it looking good :thumbs:
:thumbs: Derrick :)
 

Rob Gaskin

Treasurer
Staff member
Site Administrator
I like your honesty about your work - buts it's ok.

I found welding very satisfying i.e. starting with weak rusty bits and finishing with strong new metal.
 

uk66fastback

Club Member
It’s very therapeutic. You’re doing some good stuff here ... and it’s a long road but as I’m sure as others will testify, a satisfying one!
 

tyroguru

Club Member
Thanks guys for the feedback. I'm pretty much the stereotypical British man so I'll always be saying sorry a thousand times for anything I do :) . I also love queueing, sarcasm and manners but strangely not tea or football so maybe I've got a mixed heritage!

Great work there the last pictures of your firewall repair and putting the 90 degree flange on the panel andy supplied is exactly what I’m going to do and the make up the inner wing repair piece under where battery tray sits but first I’ve got some major work to do.

As always Derrick, I'll be looking forward to your update on this. Depending upon how much you've got to replace in that area under the battery tray it has some complex shapes but I'm sure you're up to the task. In one of the episodes of the video series I posted the other day the guy made a great section for that area but he had an (English) wheel.

I found welding very satisfying i.e. starting with weak rusty bits and finishing with strong new metal.
It’s very therapeutic. You’re doing some good stuff here ... and it’s a long road but as I’m sure as others will testify, a satisfying one!

Yeah, the overall process is very therapeutic as long as you don't get bothered about the length of time it's taking. I think if you wanted the car on the road quickly it would drive you mad but then again I guess you wouldn't go to this bother if that were the aim.

It makes it more difficult when people post pictures and videos of amazing finished cars, TTT part porn and great sounding engines (you all know who you are!).
 

Ian

Club Member
Great work here. Not easy what you are doing but you seem to be doing a nice job.

I'm planning to get the same compressor as you. Hopefully early net year so I can use it for spraying. Looks like a nice bit of kit at a good price.
 

tyroguru

Club Member
I'm planning to get the same compressor as you. Hopefully early net year so I can use it for spraying. Looks like a nice bit of kit at a good price.

Thanks Ian. I'm super happy with the compressor so far - I got it through R-Tech and have always found their customer service to be good as well. I had a thermal cut out switch on the first motor fail but because of Covid restrictions and the lack of an engineer in the South of England, FIAC sent me a new one and "allowed" me to fit it without any impact on warranty. Phil (Rushingphil) also has this model so he might have experiences/input to share.
 

candy red

Club Member
As always Derrick, I'll be looking forward to your update on this. Depending upon how much you've got to replace in that area under the battery tray it has some complex shapes but I'm sure you're up to the task. In one of the episodes of the video series I posted the other day the guy made a great section for that area but he had an (English) wheel.

Yes I’ve just watched them make the replacement panel great work when you have the right tools.
Although I’m surprised they didn’t put a 90 degree bend on the end where it joins to the firewall instead they made an angle piece and welded it underneath still good work,l don’t need to replace that much in the battery tray area :)
 

Woody928

Events Officer
Staff member
Club Member
Yeah, the overall process is very therapeutic as long as you don't get bothered about the length of time it's taking. I think if you wanted the car on the road quickly it would drive you mad but then again I guess you wouldn't go to this bother if that were the aim.

It makes it more difficult when people post pictures and videos of amazing finished cars, TTT part porn and great sounding engines (you all know who you are!).

Anything worth doing properly isn't worth rushing, and it looks like you're doing a nice job of it. You have another fast toy to play with in the meantime anyway ;)

Yeah but who knows what's hiding under the shiny paintwork of most of them. I should have by bike done by the end of this weekend so will have to swing by and check on your progress sometime.
 

tyroguru

Club Member
Anything worth doing properly isn't worth rushing, and it looks like you're doing a nice job of it. You have another fast toy to play with in the meantime anyway ;)

Yeah but who knows what's hiding under the shiny paintwork of most of them. I should have by bike done by the end of this weekend so will have to swing by and check on your progress sometime.

I'm pretty much in all the time so feel free is I'd love to see the bike.

I really "needed" that new fast toy as I figured the 240Z was just too far off and I needed some speed in my life with the bike gone. Then again, if the Z ever goes near that fast or holds the road that well then someone else must have got involved :rofl: .
 

Woody928

Events Officer
Staff member
Club Member
I'm pretty much in all the time so feel free is I'd love to see the bike.

I really "needed" that new fast toy as I figured the 240Z was just too far off and I needed some speed in my life with the bike gone. Then again, if the Z ever goes near that fast or holds the road that well then someone else must have got involved :rofl: .

Are you about Thursday evening or Saturday afternoon? If so then ping me a PM, I'm putting test miles on it right now. You'll get to laugh at me kicking it too as the electric starter has just died :oops:

Hahaha you do love your speed! Well I'm sure you'll get some more inspiration for that idea later this summer when I swing by in the new improved Z again ;)
 

tyroguru

Club Member
Well, I've had a go at doing the inner skin for the chassis rail and overall I'm really pleased with how it's gone. It's been a real challenge for my skills and I've learnt a lot as always. However, I simply cannot convince myself that the final result is good enough from a structural perspective and that would always be on my mind. My doubts are twofold: (1) the quality of my plug welds as usual particularly when joining thicker to thinner material, (2) a few bits of poor execution on my part to do with attaching to the firewall which I'll explain below.

As a result I'm going to take the whole of the chassis rail out and put a complete new one in. I've finally bit the bullet and ordered a spot welder and I'm hoping I can master that well enough to achieve a better outcome - time will tell I guess! Anyway, it's all good fun albeit a bit costly!

Anyway, a few pics and a little bit of explanation for posterity.

I bought a rail off Andy at Auto Panel Solution and it contains internal strengthening which I had to remove as it was right where the inner skin would go:

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I'm totally clueless when it comes to CAD solutions but I figured that I've got no chance at all at making this fit unless I produce a model of the part to see how I can form it accurately so I gave Autodesk Fusion 360 a go as I'd read it was easier than something like Solidworks for total n00bs. They do a hobbyist license which is free and it was surprisingly easy to get something together although having a bunch of YouTube videos on sheet metal modelling was essential. Here's a rendering of the part:

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I used 2mm sheet for it as I figured that would give me good strength and also pretty much match the chassis rail which was 2.4mm (I wanted to match them for ease of plug welding...). As some of you will know, forming flanges on 2mm sheet is not easy! Owing to the shape of it I could only form one edge with my metal brake but the other two had to be done by hand using 5mm angle iron clamped to the bench for a support and some severe "encouragement" from a lump hammer with some protection on the face. Anyway, it turned out quite well:

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The above image was just a test fit but shows that it fits pretty well - it was nice and tight. After that image was taken I drilled spot weld holes into the small left hand section and encouraged a better fit for that to the original chassis rail. I then welded the whole of the left section into the new chassis rail piece while it was on the bench as that gave me the best chance of making nice plug welds. Note that I was going to weld a small section across in the inner skin across the gap that you can see but that hasn't been done yet (and probably won't be now). It actually went pretty well and here's what it looked like before welding into the original chassis rail section:

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At this point I was reasonably happy with things but then I made a mistake which I'll put down as a learning experience. As you can see I Cleco'd the flange to the firewall and I actually put a jack under the bottom of it to ensure that was solid into the underside of the floor/toeboard. However, that was all I did and I didn't tack the flanges to the firewall which meant that with the large amount of heat used to weld the chassis rails together it pulled the rail away from the firewall and very slightly to the right. I was so peed off I cannot describe. I can guarantee you that it was dead-on balls accurate straight before I started welding as I'd used a laser to throw a straight line and also had the crossmember bolted in as several advised me to. This image isn't the final fit-up as it's not straight but shows what I was mean :

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The front flange had pulled away from the firewall by about 2mm and the from section was pulled off to the right slightly. I'd also say that it was raised up slightly so overall I was not happy at all. Regardless of this though I carried on and plug welded the flanges to the firewall! Looking back I should have just stopped there as I had to fold the flanges over in-situ to meet the firewall owing to the newly created Mariana Trench of a gap that I had just made. The long flange going down the toe board actually wasn't too bad a could be plug welded OK but the top flange was a disaster zone as not enough of it met the firewall to plug weld together (incredible as it sounds you just can't weld across thin air!). Anyway, I seam welded the top flange.

The "final" version of this looks like:

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You don't really get the misalignment from that angle but I can assure you that it's there. It actually feels really solid and possibly I'm being too worried and bothered but I'm just not happy with the outcome at all so I'm going to start again with a fresh chassis rail and a spot welder. Obviously the spot welder will hopefully come in very handy in other areas as well.

The one thing that I have learnt from this is that copper backers really do let you pile the heat into metal without blowing through. I kind of knew that and I use copper backing sometimes but I didn't really realise just how much heat you can put into a thin panel (< 1mm) if it's got a copper backer on it. This came into great effect when doing the spot welds from the front onto the firewall metal where the flange is significantly thicker than the firewall that is being welded into. My current favourite copper backer is this bad boy as it does allow you to really get a very solid connection with the metal (I do use the Frost 4x2 inch plates as well):

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uk66fastback

Club Member
A spot welder is incredibly useful and when you have it you will wonder how you ever thought you could do it without it. Get the settings right and it works a treat! I did the sills on an MGB a long, long time ago and they came out as per factory.
Great work above by the way,
 

Woody928

Events Officer
Staff member
Club Member
Loving your work, I have so much respect for your can do attitude/willingness to invest and learn how to use all of the required tools to restore your car. Metalwork looks like witchcraft to me and I fully understand why it takes years to master it and obtain and good level of finish! I honestly think your're doing a great job, don't lose your enthusiasm.

At least when you're finished you know your car will all be made of solid metal, and not filler, fibreglass, hopes/dreams and god knows what else...
 

tyroguru

Club Member
A spot welder is incredibly useful and when you have it you will wonder how you ever thought you could do it without it. Get the settings right and it works a treat! I did the sills on an MGB a long, long time ago and they came out as per factory.
Great work above by the way,

Thanks Mike. Yeah, it was really the cost that was stopping me going down this route but the further I get down the rabbit hole the less I'm bothered about the cost :) . Really looking forward to getting the spot welder so I can play with it but I think it's coming from Italy (Tecna) so who knows how long that will take at the minute?!

Loving your work, I have so much respect for your can do attitude/willingness to invest and learn how to use all of the required tools to restore your car. Metalwork looks like witchcraft to me and I fully understand why it takes years to master it and obtain and good level of finish! I honestly think your're doing a great job, don't lose your enthusiasm.

Thanks Mark! I'm hoping I can keep the long term enthusiasm/effort up and I try not to set myself hard timelines on this which definitely helps me generally as I have so many of those in other areas. Mentally that helps me not get stressed about not making forward progress.

Regarding the "can do attitude" - I think I just watched too much Rocky when I was younger :rofl: . That and I always start the day with at least 10 views of the chief motivator himself, Shia LaBeouf.

 
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