123 ignition for Datsun L6 on my L28

[jonbills]

I think the rockauto Cardone distributor is a 280zx one isn't it? I had one for years and it was great.
whats wrong with your existing distributor @Graeme - CZ?
I think the simplest upgrade is to the pertronix thing, although I wasn't convinced by the one I had.

What's a vacuum return?

 

[AliK]

Hi all,

I'm curious what folks think are the various options for Distributor refurb / renewal? I see here 123 ignition and Speeduino.

What else?

I was just looking at this: https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=28194&cc=1209204&jsn=816

I think what I really want to do is renew what I have, more than achieve some further performance gains. I've already made a pretty good leap with the Zstory exhaust system.

Also, my vacuum return is not functioning, so i need to renew something.

Welcome peoples experience / ideas?

Cheers, Graeme

I have a Rockauto one that ended up £180 delivered! It is as correctly stated a recon with some new electronics on it.

It never got fitted in the end so it’s available if you want it. Just PM me. What I did do though, is to use the vacuum advance “can” from it to test on my original 280zx dizzy and it proved the canister works well and the adjustment screw allows you to change the amount of vac advance. It was adding 25 degrees out of the box!!!! So I dialled it back a bit to a safer 10 degrees for my engine.

 

[240L31]

It was adding 25 degrees out of the box!!!! So I dialled it back a bit to a safer 10 degrees for my engine.

I think my 280ZX dizzy adds even more, around 30° of timing. This is fine, at least for my engine (10.7 CR), transient response is much better with it. Just remove your VA for a test and feel how much slower the engine revs at idle!

At high engine load (low vacuum) the vacuum advance does nothing anyways, so I can't see how it should harm the engine.

 

[AliK]

I think my 280ZX dizzy adds even more, around 30° of timing. This is fine, at least for my engine (10.7 CR), transient response is much better with it. Just remove your VA for a test and feel how much slower the engine revs at idle!

At high engine load (low vacuum) the vacuum advance does nothing anyways, so I can't see how it should harm the engine.

My main concern was the “rate of attack” being unknown and potential for pinging on transition from part to full throttle.

Also, the big vac advance distributors were for the later L28s with low compression - the early 240 engines had more compression and less vac advance so I just went with that logic. I don’t think it was purely driven by emissions requirements alone.

 

[Graeme - CZ]

I think the rockauto Cardone distributor is a 280zx one isn't it? I had one for years and it was great.
whats wrong with your existing distributor @Graeme - CZ?
I think the simplest upgrade is to the pertronix thing, although I was convinced by the one I had.

What's a vacuum return?

I think i may mean the vacuum advance, the thingy on the side with the rubber tube to the carbs. Mine is not working.

 

[uk66fastback]

I've just bought and fitted one of these 123 distributors - and this is a great thread I have to say. I followed the install advice of alienpoker (who has an installation video on Youtube) and rcv who detailed it all here. Between their two accounts of it it was successfully achieved. The key is doing things in the prescribed order. I had read rcv's account before but then on doing mine I was confused by the rotor being between cylinders 1 and 5 but then it makes sense after a while (being at 0 degrees). I too copied Ali's advance curve to get an initial start of the engine. Bear in mind that my ZTherapy carbs were straight out of the box and the idle had not been set - I need to check the AFR of them and set the idle a bit higher, which is possible now it is running.

The shiny link is meant to be above the no. 1 I thought. Mine wasn't but once the notches were lined up we had TDC and the timing mark showed 0. Am I right in thinking this could have been anywhere between 0 and 10?

 

[S30_Nut]

I installed my 123 dizzy this weekend, and the car start and drives. Thanks to the amazing contributions on this post I managed to avoid some rather un-obvious gotchas and installation went without hitch .

 

[alienpoker]

I've just bought and fitted one of these 123 distributors - and this is a great thread I have to say. I followed the install advice of alienpoker (who has an installation video on Youtube) and rcv who detailed it all here. Between their two accounts of it it was successfully achieved. The key is doing things in the prescribed order. I had read rcv's account before but then on doing mine I was confused by the rotor being between cylinders 1 and 5 but then it makes sense after a while (being at 0 degrees). I too copied Ali's advance curve to get an initial start of the engine. Bear in mind that my ZTherapy carbs were straight out of the box and the idle had not been set - I need to check the AFR of them and set the idle a bit higher, which is possible now it is running.

The shiny link is meant to be above the no. 1 I thought. Mine wasn't but once the notches were lined up we had TDC and the timing mark showed 0. Am I right in thinking this could have been anywhere between 0 and 10?

Uhhh… this pic and setup Does Not show TDC. There’s a “notch” in the hub of the gear, which should be underneath the little “-“ dash mark you can see in the oval window at the top. See last pic. Don’t worry if its not perfect, but I don’t see a ‘notch’ at all. And the shiny link will be at the 1 (or 2 maybe if someone before you adjusted for timing chain slack - but probably the 1 will be correct). Here’s some still pics from my video, which need to be looked at closely… or zoom the video and press Pause a lot:

 

[alienpoker]

I installed my 123 dizzy this weekend, and the car start and drives. Thanks to the amazing contributions on this post I managed to avoid some rather un-obvious gotchas and installation went without hitch .

Let me know if any info on vacuum advance is useful. I did a video on what the FSM shows, and what 123/Tune+ expects. It’s really confusing and took me several months to get right.

For the doubters out there on the 123Ignition dizzy, I have a built L6 Stroker at around 3.1L running on a 123/Tune+. Revs clean past 7K RPM. Engine dyno results were just over 300HP @6,700 RPM and Max torque was 255.7 ft-lbs @ 5300 rpm. Temp was 77F 29.23” in CA, USA. So… Dry Air.

 

[AliK]

@alienpoker - This is great thanks for posting it!!!

Feel free to add as much info as you see fit / think is useful for all. The purpose of this thread is to be a body of knowledge, so you’re doing a service for the community.

 

[Tim_72zg]

Hey everyone ,
So I installed a 123 on my 240Z yesterday ,everything went well .
Quick question , If I don’t use the vacuum advance as I haven’t done so previously with my 280z dizzy , am I right in saying I need to change the vacuum advance curve to 0 at all rpm points?

 

[alienpoker]

Hey everyone ,
So I installed a 123 on my 240Z yesterday ,everything went well .
Quick question , If I don’t use the vacuum advance as I haven’t done so previously with my 280z dizzy , am I right in saying I need to change the vacuum advance curve to 0 at all rpm points?

I do not think this is true. If you plug the vac leak on the forward carb with a cap and leave the hose off the 123i dizzy, all will be well. The dizzy will see no changes in vacuum, and will not change the timing. It will respond only to changes in RPM. Having a way to sense the load on the engine is better, though.

 

[Tim_72zg]

I do not think this is true. If you plug the vac leak on the forward carb with a cap and leave the hose off the 123i dizzy, all will be well. The dizzy will see no changes in vacuum, and will not change the timing. It will respond only to changes in RPM. Having a way to sense the load on the engine is better, though.

Great , thanks just wanted to make sure

 

[Tim_72zg]

Hi everyone I thought I should share my experience with installing the 123 ignition on my 240z with L28 stroker , overall install and so far driving has been pretty good .
Here are a couple additions to everyone else’s install write ups as I don’t think these things were mentioned and they need to be to make things easier .

1. Ensure when you insert the dizzy to locate onto the oil pump shaft so that the dizzy rotor does not move when you turn the body , confirming the dizzy is located correctly on the shaft . My rotor pointed to the drivers side fender with my motor at TDC , I was fortunate to have just got back my motor from my engine builder who set it at TDC.

2. I’ve read many people saying that the embossed 1 on the cap doesn’t always line up where the rotor points at TDC. I believe this is why there are multiple points when the body is turned where the green light illuminates , I turned the body of mine with the cap on until the 1 lined up with the rotor with the green light illuminated .

Starter right up , rpm readout works , can’t complain so far , engine runs much smoother than before

 

[alienpoker]

Started right up , rpm readout works , can’t complain so far , engine runs much smoother than before

Good points. Nice to hear someone else running 123 ignition on a stroker L28. You can buy a billet distributor clamp that looks better & works nicely.

I also bought a Bosch cap and rotor and put the original ones in my toolbox as emergency spares. Bosch is better quality by a far margin.
Distributor Cap: Bosch 1.23.522.060
Part Number for the rotor is: Bosch 1.234.332.024
Which has been superseded by part number: Bosch 1.234.332.088

 

[Faster Behr]

Here's the part numbers

Distributor cap: Bosch 1.235.522.060

Beru VK 102

Thought so Porashe 911 2.7 etc

ebay - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bosch-12...187439?hash=item3652ba7d2f:g:x3wAAOSwQ8ZdWSgy


https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_osacat=0&_odkw=Distributorcap:+Bosch+1.235.522.060&_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=Distributor+cap:+Bosch+1.235.522.060&_sacat=0

Just be careful that the cap has holes not pin's , as people sometimes don't understand part numbers on ebay

I purchased a Bosch 1 235 522 060 distributor cap to fit to my 123+ Tune distributor today. Unfortunately it is indexed differently around the base and does not lock onto the 123. Otherwise it appears almost identical. It would be good to find a good quality alternative if anyone has any other part numbers to hand?

I can only assume 123 Ignitions have changed the base.

 

[Huw]

Bremi 8017p. Works well and cheaper than Bosch. Plus I would really worry about the indexing. You know which one is number one from setting up the 123 in the first instance. Just put a mark on the correct terminal that corresponds to that position in indelible marker pen.

 

[Faster Behr]

Unfortunately it won’t lock in at all. There’s nothing to stop it rotating. It could be modified but messing with a distributor cap has never ended well in my experience.

Thanks for the Bremi number I’ll order one up

 

[240L31]

Thanks for the heads up on the other cars - here’s a list of other part numbers in case useful to anyone else ...


BERU: VK102, VK155,
BMW: 12111351446, 12111353117,
BREMI: 8017P,
DAF: 163793,
EPS: 1.306.072,
FACET: 2.7472PHT,
FORD: 11710256,
KW: 806072,
MERCEDES-BENZ: 0001580702, 0001582502, 0001585302, 10001585302, A0001580702, A0001582502, A0001585302,
MWM: 606908730203,
OPEL: 1212135, 1212138,
PORSCHE: 90160295600, 91160293300, QUINTON HAZELL: XD138,
SMPE: 44160,
STELLOX: 21-00002-SX, 21-00746-SX, 21-00779-SX

Bosch one currently selling at £23 on eBay or £21 on AUTODOC. Beru at £7-£9. I bought a spare cap from 123 when I bought the dizzy - it was a Beru and around £46; oh and it arrived broken, the centre electrode was broken off before coming out of packaging! See the pic below, the cap on the left ....

I just bought the 123 distributor (finally). What is the go-to part for the rotor?
I'd go for the Beru VK102 cap, not sure about which rotor to buy. I don't care if it is expensive, top priority is reliability to me.

 

[yellowz]

Beru VK102 cap

Have you found somewhere that has stock?