SeanDezart
Well-Known Forum User
Downed a very smooth Buzet earlier : 14°
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£70k 1969 Sam modded by the z farm?
- Thread starter Alphabettispaghetti
- Start date
Cool. I'm doing a Peroni/tea on the wood burner (coal) combo. Whoops, stay on topic, did I tell you about when I met Duncan.
atomman
Club Member
To put things in contrast to other marks there's a 993 RS in the up coming SIiverstone auction that was re-shelled by Porsche after a 'off' early in its life and that is 100k cheaper than usual,
Race/Rally cars have always been re-shelled , some people/companies would do it 'properly' finding a shell of same year etc etc, some people an import LHD shell of whatever year and not care.. but Rally cars are usually road registered and MOT'd where in lays the legality problem
I had more than a few people trying to buy my old 1965 Porsche 912 to turn into a 911 to race in the 2.0 litre cup
Race/Rally cars have always been re-shelled , some people/companies would do it 'properly' finding a shell of same year etc etc, some people an import LHD shell of whatever year and not care.. but Rally cars are usually road registered and MOT'd where in lays the legality problem
I had more than a few people trying to buy my old 1965 Porsche 912 to turn into a 911 to race in the 2.0 litre cup
Alphabettispaghetti
Club Member
Totally correct, however one was done by Porsche using all the correct parts, the other wasn't!
AD240Z
Club Member
There isn’t a lot of evidence that this car was what I would consider a rally car - that would require such extensive rebuild works .
That one event mentioned is a gentle jaunt , with cultural stops and nice hotel stays.
If they imported a car in 2010 - would they have relevant paperwork of its import ? ( not an envelope that had vin plates in) .
Imported as an HLS in 2010 .
First Registered with the DVLA in 2012 ( it says as a Jan 70) after a restoration at the Z- farm.
In 2012 it’s RHD - and with later model features (?).
Now it’s back to LHD and cloaked in Samuri colours.
I’d say that’s a checkered history .
As the original referrer is aware - more history and pictures of the car -(and hls30 00059 )here:
https://www.classiczcars.com/forums/topic/61045-s30-nos-quarter-panels/?&page=2#comments
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Albrecht
Well-Known Forum User
Because it's a ringer.
Albrecht
Well-Known Forum User
Circumstances surrounding this car(s) are quite the conundrum. It doesn't make much sense to me.
Why pin the 'HLS30-00059' identity on a much later - also LHD - car? The recipient car would have had its own factory-assigned identity, so what would be the reason to erase it?
The early production cars (let's say October 1969 through the first few months of 1970) have a lot of quirks and identifying features which were gradually ironed out or superseded as production ramped up and techniques improved. Pinning such an early production identity - which brings expectation of those early production characteristics - on a much later bodyshell just doesn't make any sense. It's a real mismatch. Jarringly so.
Anybody with the most basic knowledge of these cars would see that the stated production date and chassis number doesn't match up with the details of the bodyshell that it is sitting on. The car has impact bumper mounts, vented rear quarters filled to look like non-vented quarters and a big servo firewall. Even the bolt-on panels don't say 1969: A non-vented tailgate and lipped filler flap can be seen from halfway up the road.
It's a real dog's dinner.
Why pin the 'HLS30-00059' identity on a much later - also LHD - car? The recipient car would have had its own factory-assigned identity, so what would be the reason to erase it?
The early production cars (let's say October 1969 through the first few months of 1970) have a lot of quirks and identifying features which were gradually ironed out or superseded as production ramped up and techniques improved. Pinning such an early production identity - which brings expectation of those early production characteristics - on a much later bodyshell just doesn't make any sense. It's a real mismatch. Jarringly so.
Anybody with the most basic knowledge of these cars would see that the stated production date and chassis number doesn't match up with the details of the bodyshell that it is sitting on. The car has impact bumper mounts, vented rear quarters filled to look like non-vented quarters and a big servo firewall. Even the bolt-on panels don't say 1969: A non-vented tailgate and lipped filler flap can be seen from halfway up the road.
It's a real dog's dinner.
Alphabettispaghetti
Club Member
There's no legal practice
If a car without an ID, a ringer is advertised at £70k, that'd make all others worth £100,000,000 surely?
Maybe if you value the 'value' above everything else.
uk66fastback
Club Member
So it’s been re-shelled but 0059 has been used as the VIN ... and the shell is a much later one? Oh dear. Mind you, the ad does say all this. But it ain’t 0059 is it?
And he never says it’s a Samuri, he just says it’s painted in Samuri colours ...
So he’s not covering anything up, but admitting to reshelling a car but keeping the VIN of the one he’s transferred some of the parts from (or maybe not). Maybe it was only the VIN ...
And he never says it’s a Samuri, he just says it’s painted in Samuri colours ...
So he’s not covering anything up, but admitting to reshelling a car but keeping the VIN of the one he’s transferred some of the parts from (or maybe not). Maybe it was only the VIN ...
Alphabettispaghetti
Club Member
he could have at least bought a pre 71 shell? You have hoped whichever company was swapping id’s/ringing would have at least put a little bit of thought in!?
Albrecht
Well-Known Forum User
The engine block appears to be the original from HLS30-00059.
So, 'Matching Numbers'...
The sales blurb is probably a good gauge of the vendor's take on what is OK and what's not. Some slightly muddled thinking at the very least. Hopefully any future owner will be fully au fait with what they've actually got.
AD240Z
Club Member
I can’t see where that asking price comes from (other than what they claim to have spent ) . Maybe ringers demand a premium I wasn’t aware.
Just browsing previous auction results for cars with a competition spec . / theme over the last couple of years .
What would you offer for it ....?
SeanDezart
Well-Known Forum User
Maybe he's not looking down at your quoted prices but up at MZRs'.....compared to which, it's inexpensive ?
Several Zs over here have been valued this year at +£50k.
Several Zs over here have been valued this year at +£50k.
I went to view at that auction (Stoneleigh). Some great cars.
The car with No 5 on is my old car.
AD240Z
Club Member
I think so Sean . I’d have most of those others over that one - especially your old one Rob.
It’s actually quoted in the blurb
‘In truth, if i was starting again now, and did not want a car eligible for pre-1970 rallies, I would most likely go to MZR Roadsports in Bradford, for one of their reconstructed Datsun 240zs. They’ve taken all the pain and produced something that I now have, but at half the cost, even at their starting price of something like £89,995, I believe. But i’ll let mine go for £69,500.’
.... best of luck there ... I’m sure they are flattered at the ‘produced something that I have now’ part .
Alphabettispaghetti
Club Member
Are any of those wearing the wrong chassis ID? Or are any of those wearing the wrong year body for the chassis number? Maybe hes look 'past' that and not up or down at anything.
SeanDezart
Well-Known Forum User
HLS30 stands for left-hand drive. That RHD cars are wearing this chassis code appears to be ok only in the UK and applied to top-end cars. I still maintain that such a modification equates to a major change in 'identity' and that it is a result of limited stocks of RHD cars in the market AND a limited reserve of RHD restoration bases.
That LHD chassis have been imported to restore is purely a financial decison but hopefully with prices rising, also as a result of MZR publicity, those UK original RHD cars will be saved now.