Too modified = Q plate ( DVLA)

[datsfun]

DVLA's Dos and Don'ts: The risks of modifying your classic car | Hagerty UK

If you're thinking making modification to a car, doing an EV swap, or making changes to a chassis, check with the DVLA first. Here's why.

www.hagerty.co.uk

I wonder how some of the severely modified cars would fare if they got stopped by DVLA mobile roadside testers ?

 

[Kieronpollock]

Same goes for cars with a modern engine change and still having their car registered as an historical vehicle.

 

[toopy]

On the strength of that article, many thousands of classics should likely be on Q plates! madness! There definitely needs to be context applied to modifications not just a blanket rule, i mean how many old cars by now won't of had extra holes drilled in them for something simple

 

[Mr Tenno]

Wondered how long it would take for this discussion to pop up here. Been following this since it was on Pistonheads etc. Interesting comment pointed out that with the current regs, a rust hole could pass, but cut the rust out, weld in a new plate and drill a hole through and it would fail. Madness

 

[8658kv]

DVLA's Dos and Don'ts: The risks of modifying your classic car | Hagerty UK

If you're thinking making modification to a car, doing an EV swap, or making changes to a chassis, check with the DVLA first. Here's why.

www.hagerty.co.uk

I wonder how some of the severely modified cars would fare if they got stopped by DVLA mobile roadside testers ?

Seems silly, when a lot of Mini’s would have had the battery box replaced.

https://www.minisport.com/mini-restoration/mcr11-42-04-00-mini-mk1-3-battery-box-assembly-includes-eyelets-and-supports.html

 

[datsfun]

This DVLA point rule has been around for a few years now.

Simply having a hole cut out isn't going to create issues. However if you have already "lost" the points on engine , axles, suspension then it could become critical IMHO

I believe this is why many escort MkI owners with cossie lump and gearbox swapped alongside the usual swaps have been nervous aboit this rule - as the gearbox tunnel had to be chopped away to accommodate bigger box.

 

[AliK]

When they originally started to go down this road there was an outcry from the classic car community.

They then had consultations and clarifications with the FBVHC.

They clarified that there is a points system to consider and assess what is Radically Altered! Your car must score a minimum of 8 points

Vehicle registration

How to register your vehicle and the cost - new registrations, kit cars, rebuilds, radically altered vehicles, old and classic vehicles, vehicle identification numbers, Q plates

www.gov.uk

Now then a further clarification came - for example an engine swap (say for a non-L series) does not lose you points providing it has the same configuration I.e. a straight six.

But let’s say you have leaf springs and change to coil overs then you lose points on suspension.

On that note, this is one of those things that I have to consider when writing dating letters. I have in the past refused some cars due to radical alterations - such as cutting away the spare wheel well area to make way for a racing fuel cell combined with a V8 and so on. But if you have the techno toys tuning suspension arms, you haven’t changed the configuration.

Once in a while we get stories of extreme situations because there is discretion on behalf of the inspector / assessor and there are often good reasons to their judgement - but 99% of the time our mods are within the rules to avoid a Q plate.

Edit: something to consider - if you add a roll cage and it goes through the firewall or requires cutting away of any of the monocoque then you’re loosing the chassis points!


Hope that helps.

 

[uk66fastback]

I’ve no idea how my old Mustang got registered. It was a 347cc stroker (original was a 289), manual box was a T5 (original was a C4 auto), front suspension was a trick coilover set-up, (original was struts), steering was R&P (original was recirculating ball) … must have been before the points system came in? I think I registered it in the UK in 2012 …

 

[Mr Tenno]

Edit: something to consider - if you add a roll cage and it goes through the firewall or requires cutting away of any of the monocoque then you’re loosing the chassis points!

I think this the real crux of it, we all know it's practically impossible to keep a classic alive across the decades without the odd new screw hole or bit of non-standard modification. How much is too much where the chassis is concerned?

 

[Rob Gaskin]

In my view an S30 should have an L6 to be classified as Historic. A modified car with an RB for example is a great car but not Historic.

 

[Alphabettispaghetti]

Chassis repair is fine. You cut out shapes/alter design and it’s not as the OEM designed, so you loose the points. More likely on the structural parts.

It’s all very clear. The guy with the mini ev conversion that’s kicking up a fuss just needs to have an IVA done.

 

[jonbills]

It seems odd that you can modify the original engine with uprated plug leads or even EFI and not lose the points, change the suspension with new springs or bump steer spacers and not lose the points but one drilled hole in the body loses you five points.
I can't help thinking the owner must have upset the inspector.

 

[arcdef]

Would a RHD conversion be deemed a chassis modification and so mean any converted cars need Q plates too?

 

[Kieronpollock]

And would such a conversion not be considered a ‘substantial change’ for MOT purposes and therefore the car would no longer be exempt?

 

[AliK]

I can't help thinking the owner must have upset the inspector.

Exactly what I was thinking Jon - we don’t always know the full facts with some of these things. I think there is more to this story - while the DVLA can be annoying to deal with, I’ve always found them quite pragmatic on many complex / borderline cases to do with the vehicle dating. The trick is to remain respectful and follow their process.

Fortunately for us the UK is quite lenient on resto mods compared with some other countries.

Would a RHD conversion be deemed a chassis modification and so mean any converted cars need Q plates too?

Not necessarily - as Mr Alpha said, it’s a matter of going through an IVA test which IIRC is c. £500. Providing the car is structurally sound and passes the required tests then there is no reason why it can’t be re-certified and assigned an age appropriate VRM. Let’s not forget the IVA test exists for safety reasons so it’s actually not a bad thing on a conversion that you haven’t personally done / commissioned.

If I remember correctly - and happy to be corrected - this kicked off because the Bugatti owners club were building cars out of spare and remanufactured parts and assigning chassis numbers. So the purpose of theserules was to ensure authenticity. Whether it’s gone too far or not is of course a topic for debate, but the rules are there, we can’t fight them and in the vast majority of cases, applied pragmatically and considered on an individual basis.

 

[Mr Tenno]

Not necessarily - as Mr Alpha said, it’s a matter of going through an IVA test which IIRC is c. £500. Providing the car is structurally sound and passes the required tests then there is no reason why it can’t be re-certified and assigned an age appropriate VRM. Let’s not forget the IVA test exists for safety reasons so it’s actually not a bad thing on a conversion that you haven’t personally done / commissioned.

I think the point is that most classic cars won't pass an IVA as they fall far short of modern safety requirements.

 

[Mark N]

In my view an S30 should have an L6 to be classified as Historic. A modified car with an RB for example is a great car but not Historic.

I'm assuming you mean an L-series six (or an S20) as an RB is an L6 configuration engine.

 

[Alphabettispaghetti]

I think the point is that most classic cars won't pass an IVA as they fall far short of modern safety requirements.

You don’t need to hit modern safety for an Iva. That’s just how a caterham gets passed. We’ve one of the most flexible systems in the world for home made cars.

 

[Alphabettispaghetti]

It seems odd that you can modify the original engine with uprated plug leads or even EFI and not lose the points, change the suspension with new springs or bump steer spacers and not lose the points but one drilled hole in the body loses you five points.
I can't help thinking the owner must have upset the inspector.

He adapted to chassis away from original use(ev). That’s why he lost those points. If he made it bolt in, he’d have kept them

 

[atomman]

This is always gonna be a massive can of worms ,

A RHD converted S30 has a modified chassis/monocoque, Would that now need to be IVA'd or Q plate ?

An original RHD S30 is worth good money but a LHD converted car? What are the clubs insurance values on them now are they gonna change?

What about all the American pickups and cars with front clips and/or newer chassis', newer engines, all the land rovers running Cummins lumps, Ferrari 250 GTO replica's .....

Think of all the value of classic cars , if they enforced this properly wouldn't this just make many of them worthless ?

like I said Massive can of worms.....

funnily I had an inspection the other week and the bloke was a real nice guy , but I have heard some are a bit harsh