Interesting 240Z

[SeanDezart]

Rare genuine RHD very early car 1970 and few owners For S...

Rare genuine RHD very early car 1970 and few owners For S...

www.carandclassic.com

RHD, in mph and yet with USA rear wing repeaters and non-euro interior trim colour.

 

[Paul_S]

Yes, a genuine "converted to RHD" model I would suggest!

Not that there's anything wrong with that of course. Just as long as the buyer understands exactly what they are buying.

 

[Kieronpollock]

This dealer has made some errors in the past in describing the cars for sale including the white one he bought off eBay early summer and flipped and the ‘genuine’ samuri he bought several months ago and has kept for himself.
He’s posted on FB looking for the material to restore the front seats

 

[Albrecht]

Hopefully the seller would be able to back up the "...supplied new in Japan in 1970 to a member of the U. K. armed forces in 1974 it came to the U. K. where it has been ever since." and "...a genuine RHD example."

But I would not dismiss the story out of hand. One of my own cars was ordered new from Nissan's diplomatic sales office in Japan by a USAF pilot who used the car in Japan and then took it back to the USA with him. He was then deployed to a UK base and brought the car here. He sold it here when he rotated back to the USA. Hey presto, Japanese market car in UK.

There were also RAF pilots who were deployed to Japanese USAF bases on exchange programs, so an RAF pilot stationed in Japan is also possible.

It would be unusual for a purchaser to order an early HS30 from Nissan diplomatic sales office in Japan, but not impossible. Most such sales were either for Japanese market variants to be used in Japan, or North American market variants to be used temporarily in Japan and then brought back to the USA gratis as chattels.

​

 

[Albrecht]

...and non-euro interior trim colour.

If it was ordered and bought new in Japan, it wouldn't necessarily have to be 'UK' or 'Euro' spec.

It could quite easily have been specced as a nascent Aus/NZ market car, but Nissan's diplomatic sales office could be very accommodating so buyer may well have been able to choose.

Rear side markers would be mandatory had the car been used in Okinawa (then a USA-held territory that drove on the right) as part of a deployment. They were often added after the fact.

 

[Mark N]

If it was ordered and bought new in Japan, it wouldn't necessarily have to be 'UK' or 'Euro' spec.

It could quite easily have been specced as a nascent Aus/NZ market car, but Nissan's diplomatic sales office could be very accommodating so buyer may well have been able to choose.

Rear side markers would be mandatory had the car been used in Okinawa (then a USA-held territory that drove on the right) as part of a deployment. They were often added after the fact.

Would it be normal to have a LHD scuttle and wiper set up?

 

[Albrecht]

Would it be normal to have a LHD scuttle and wiper set up?

No. Hence:

Hopefully the seller would be able to back up the "...supplied new in Japan in 1970 to a member of the U. K. armed forces in 1974 it came to the U. K. where it has been ever since." and "...a genuine RHD example."

...and to make it even clearer:

Hopefully the seller would be able to back up the ... "...a genuine RHD example."

What I'm saying - between the lines - is that we can probably guess what has gone on with this particular car, but that I would not dimiss stories of "bought new in Japan" out of hand because that kind of thing DID happen in period.

 

[Dale]

It was recently sold at a salvage auction as a CAT U which in itself doesn’t necessarily mean anything terrible, but it does seem to me to be an unusual route for it to find itself. Why a salvage auction and not a regular one?

 

[Rushingphil]

It was recently sold at a salvage auction as a CAT U which in itself doesn’t necessarily mean anything terrible, but it does seem to me to be an unusual route for it to find itself. Why a salvage auction and not a regular one?

Was it RHD or LHD at that sale?

 

[Dale]

Was it RHD or LHD at that sale?

RHD

 

[8658kv]

No. Hence:



...and to make it even clearer:



What I'm saying - between the lines - is that we can probably guess what has gone on with this particular car, but that I would not dimiss stories of "bought new in Japan" out of hand because that kind of thing DID happen in period.

Here you go Alan

Not a UK car.

 

[Albrecht]

Here you go Alan

Not a UK car.

View attachment 54803

Excellent. Thank you!

So maybe the vendor *believes* it is an original RHD car?

The story of purchase new in Japan and then import to UK (in 1974 according to the HPI - thanks again) might well check out, but clearly it was an HLS30 rather than an HS30.

I reckon chassis number of HLS30-16044 puts production date right at the end of 1970. Certainly December of that year.

 

[Alphabettispaghetti]

Excellent. Thank you!

So maybe the vendor *believes* it is an original RHD car?

The story of purchase new in Japan and then import to UK (in 1974 according to the HPI - thanks again) might well check out, but clearly it was an HLS30 rather than an HS30.

I reckon chassis number of HLS30-16044 puts production date right at the end of 1970. Certainly December of that year.

December I think? 12000 range is oct.

 

[Kieronpollock]

Vendor has posted following on Datsun UK FB site - he’s already had the challenges regarding LH scuttle and provision of chassis number to support claim of being genuine RHD….. wish I coulda restored my genuine RHD car to ‘as new condition’ for £39995

 

[SeanDezart]

Sold new in 1970 in Japan then arrived here in 1974 ?

 

[Albrecht]

Sold new in 1970 in Japan then arrived here in 1974 ?

As I've already tried to point out in this thread, that kind of scenario is perfectly feasible.

Cases in point, two of my own cars:

One is a 1970 Fairlady Z-L which was sold new in Japan by Nissan's Diplomatic Sales department to a USAF pilot. After a few years in Japan - and then the USA - it came to the UK with him and ended up being given a 'W' suffix UK number in 1980.

The other is a 1972 Fairlady 240ZG sold new in Japan and then brought to the UK by its owner on a Japanese temporary-import 'carnet' license plate in early 1973. He drove it as his personal transport whilst living in London and racing in British and European F3 and F2 events. He left it here when he went back to race in Japan and it was finally given an 'N' suffix UK number in 1974.

So, there's nothing suspicious about the 'sold 1970 Japan - arrived UK 1974' story for this green car. The problem is the claim of "Genuine RHD" when the car clearly started life as an LHD variant.

 

[SeanDezart]

Sold new in 1970 in Japan then arrived here in 1974

As I've already tried to point out in this thread, that kind of scenario is perfectly feasible.

So, there's nothing suspicious about the 'sold 1970 Japan - arrived UK 1974' story for this green car. The problem is the claim of "Genuine RHD" when the car clearly started life as an LHD variant.

I don't see how it is feasible for THIS car in question (not yours) to have been sold in Japan when it originated as a LHD car.

Perhaps I should have add the above italics text to my post to more clearly express my question.

Were any export-market S30s sold to the public (national or foreign) in Japan by Nissan, please ?

 

[Albrecht]

I don't see how it is feasible for THIS car in question (not yours) to have been sold in Japan when it originated as a LHD car.

Perhaps I should have add the above italics text to my post to more clearly express my question.

Were any export-market S30s sold to the public (national or foreign) in Japan by Nissan, please ?

Yes, as pointed out in post #4.

I'm personally aware of several such cars. HS30 and HLS30-prefixed, but sold new in Japan through Nissan's 'Diplomatic Sales' department to foreign nationals temporarily living and working in Japan.

Key point was buyer's visa status. A Japanese national or a foreign national with 'Indefinite Leave To Remain' visa status would not be able to take advantage of the Diplomatic Sales department's benefits.

 

[SeanDezart]

Hopefully the seller would be able to back up the "...supplied new in Japan in 1970 to a member of the U. K. armed forces in 1974 it came to the U. K. where it has been ever since." and "...a genuine RHD example."

But I would not dismiss the story out of hand. One of my own cars was ordered new from Nissan's diplomatic sales office in Japan by a USAF pilot who used the car in Japan and then took it back to the USA with him. He was then deployed to a UK base and brought the car here. He sold it here when he rotated back to the USA. Hey presto, Japanese market car in UK.

There were also RAF pilots who were deployed to Japanese USAF bases on exchange programs, so an RAF pilot stationed in Japan is also possible.

It would be unusual for a purchaser to order an early HS30 from Nissan diplomatic sales office in Japan, but not impossible. Most such sales were either for Japanese market variants to be used in Japan, or North American market variants to be used temporarily in Japan and then brought back to the USA gratis as chattels.

​

Thanks Alan. Your post #4 suggests it most likely to be a North American variant and in your post #5, the suggestion that it could have been a "nascent Aus/NZ market car".
Are there any chassis details to determine the difference between an Aus/NZ car from a UK car from a JDM please ? I specify chassis because after +50years, many items and fitting may have been changed which are obviously not cast-iron proof despite giving clues.

However, as you've stated - this clearly started out as a LHD car ; so, ipso facto, originally a N/A market car ?

 

[Albrecht]

Your post #4 suggests it most likely to be a North American variant and in your post #5, the suggestion that it could have been a "nascent Aus/NZ market car".

Speculation on a theoretical premise, obviously. The point I was trying to make (still...) is that such cars *could* be, and *were*, purchased new in Japan under certain circumstances. A known known.

Are there any chassis details to determine the difference between an Aus/NZ car from a UK car from a JDM please ? I specify chassis because after +50years, many items and fitting may have been changed which are obviously not cast-iron proof despite giving clues.

I refer you to the Nissan factory parts manual for a list of Aus/NZ-specific details.

However, as you've stated - this clearly started out as a LHD car ; so, ipso facto, originally a N/A market car ?

Not necessarily. A special order car might not conform fully to specific sub-variant type. I touched on this previously (post #5) when I mentioned Okinawa. Guam was also a specific case. Cars to be used in such territories would not necessarily have to comply with 'UV' and 'UN' type Federal suffix specs, even if they had 'HLS30' prefixes.

There are always cars that can fall into the gaps between hard rules. In this particular car's case, I'd like to see the documentation connected to the new sale in Japan as I find that kind of thing of interest.