A fun afternoon out with an MG v8 and my 240z

[Graham Palmer]

You may have spotted this already, but I met up with Jack aka 'Number27' on YouTube a few weeks ago...lovely chap and a big fan of 'Zeds'



Did the British Sports care deserve to die ?

the outcome. no surprise to any of us (I assume !)...

enjoy

Graham

 

[Robotsan]

You may have spotted this already, but I met up with Jack aka 'Number27' on YouTube a few weeks ago...lovely chap and a big fan of 'Zeds'

View attachment 54280

Did the British Sports care deserve to die ?

the outcome. no surprise to any of us (I assume !)...

enjoy

Graham

Ah I watched this yesterday and wondered if the car belonged to anyone on here!

 

[uk66fastback]

I always loved the V8 version - only 2591 made - and wish I’d bought one a few years ago when they were much more affordable!

To say the 240z killed it is a bit much - there were a LOT of other, bigger factors that did for MG down the line - I was living in Abingdon when the factory closed and it wasn’t a good time in the town.

 

[Pondo]

This is mine and my buddies, although hes fitted a v8 in his so different from standard and mines running an l28 but pretty evenly matched when we take them out.

 

[jonbills]

I'm a bit surprised the Z looks quite a bit bigger - I always think of them as small.

 

[Albrecht]

To say the 240z killed it is a bit much - there were a LOT of other, bigger factors that did for MG down the line - I was living in Abingdon when the factory closed and it wasn’t a good time in the town.

I agree. This whole "Datsun 240Z killed the British sports car" thing is mostly an inward-looking American trope. The bigger picture was much more complicated than that.

Its interesting to see a UK market 240Z being used for a comparison like this, and of course the UK market cars were quite different in driving character compared to the (softened up and dumbed down) North American market variants which are supposed to have 'killed' the British exports. A USA market Z would have behaved significantly differently on the roads used for this video.

I always think the 6-cylinder MGC was more of a like-for-like comparison with the S30-series Z. That car could have been very good had it been properly developed, but it was too little, too late.

 

[Graham Palmer]

I agree. This whole "Datsun 240Z killed the British sports car" thing is mostly an inward-looking American trope. The bigger picture was much more complicated than that.

Its interesting to see a UK market 240Z being used for a comparison like this, and of course the UK market cars were quite different in driving character compared to the (softened up and dumbed down) North American market variants which are supposed to have 'killed' the British exports. A USA market Z would have behaved significantly differently on the roads used for this video.

I always think the 6-cylinder MGC was more of a like-for-like comparison with the S30-series Z. That car could have been very good had it been properly developed, but it was too little, too late.

I didn't know the UK and US cars were setup differently !....having only had the Z for a couple of years and a few good road trips including around Scotland...I have been super impressed with its poise and handling ....having come from 10 years of 'fast' Caterham ownership....I was not expecting it to be anywhere near are good as it is....love it !

 

[Albrecht]

I didn't know the UK and US cars were setup differently !

North American market HLS30U(N)(V) 'Datsun 240Z' models had softer springs & damper rates, thinner front ARB and no rear ARB, wide ratio 4-speed transmission, 3.3:1 diff ratio, 'slower' ratio steering and several power-sapping anti-emissions additions to the engine in comparison with UK market HS30QU 'Datsun 240Z' variant.

UK market cars also had some factory aero additions in the form of small front and rear spoilers.

In stock form, their driving characters are quite different to one another. Fair to say that the North American market car was set up perhaps as more of a straight line cruiser, whilst the UK market car was more sports-oriented.

 

[Mr.G]

I watched the video, really enjoyed it. Whilst the interior of the Z is dark it's so much better ergonomically and roomier, it was so cramped in the MG. Lovely looking car Graham.

 

[SeanDezart]

North American market HLS30U(N)(V) 'Datsun 240Z' models.......................(had) several power-sapping anti-emissions additions to the engine in comparison with UK market HS30QU 'Datsun 240Z' variant.

I always think the 6-cylinder MGC was more of a like-for-like comparison with the S30-series Z. That car could have been very good had it been properly developed, but it was too little, too late.

Surely not all NA 240Zs had power-sapping ? Post '71 ?

MGC (as per the old Classic and Sportscar article with the Z outselling it at a ratio of 16:1 ?)....from what I've read, the V8 is a more comfortable car to drive niftily.....so was the V8 'properly developed' or just an available lump dropped in ?

 

[Jay.]

Enjoyed the video, spotted the car as soon as I saw the thumbnail - great job

 

[Paul_S]

Great video!

I enjoyed reading the comments too - which is very rare for me with YouTube.

 

[Albrecht]

Surely not all NA 240Zs had power-sapping ? Post '71 ?

Anti-Emissions equipment was added to the HLS30U from the beginning of production, and is one of the reasons the Export cars got the L24 in the first place (an effort to mitigate power-sapping add-ons).

MGC (as per the old Classic and Sportscar article with the Z outselling it at a ratio of 16:1 ?).

You're confusing quantative commercial sales figures with qualitative judgement. I'm talking about how good a car is at what it is supposed to do.

If sales figures (themselves subject to all sorts of subjective influences) are the sole arbiter of how 'good' something is, then Korean 'pop group' BTS are musical geniuses*.

*Clue: They're not.

 

[Robotsan]

North American market HLS30U(N)(V) 'Datsun 240Z' models had softer springs & damper rates, thinner front ARB and no rear ARB, wide ratio 4-speed transmission, 3.3:1 diff ratio, 'slower' ratio steering and several power-sapping anti-emissions additions to the engine in comparison with UK market HS30QU 'Datsun 240Z' variant.

UK market cars also had some factory aero additions in the form of small front and rear spoilers.

In stock form, their driving characters are quite different to one another. Fair to say that the North American market car was set up perhaps as more of a straight line cruiser, whilst the UK market car was more sports-oriented.

On a side note, is it easy to fit the rear ARB to the US cars like the 280?

 

[Rob Gaskin]

I agree. This whole "Datsun 240Z killed the British sports car" thing is mostly an inward-looking American trope. The bigger picture was much more complicated than that.

Its interesting to see a UK market 240Z being used for a comparison like this, and of course the UK market cars were quite different in driving character compared to the (softened up and dumbed down) North American market variants which are supposed to have 'killed' the British exports. A USA market Z would have behaved significantly differently on the roads used for this video.

I always think the 6-cylinder MGC was more of a like-for-like comparison with the S30-series Z. That car could have been very good had it been properly developed, but it was too little, too late.

But the MGC was very front heavy and a bit of a 'parts' car as was the BV8. The MGB too had an old saloon engine in it. It should have been designed with a decent engine option to start with.

This is a desirable car IMO. Saw it at Silverstone a couple of weeks ago. Alloy block special. Shame the L series didn't have an alloy block but at least it had an alloy head.

 

[Rob Gaskin]

I liked the video presenters style and attitude. None of the Mike Brewer sensationalism.

 

[Huw]

One thing MG’s did much better than a Z was rust. Hateful little car to repair. I used to earn a little side money when I was an apprentice welding these for a restorer (used to de-seam Minis also, which was far more fun) Only upside for MG’s were all panels were available and still are via MOSS in Bristol.

 

[Albrecht]

On a side note, is it easy to fit the rear ARB to the US cars like the 280?

If the mounting brackets are there, it's a simple bolt-on.

If the mounting brackets are not there, they are pretty easy to fabricate and attach to the body in the factory positions. Just simple 'U' shape with a tabbed 'latch' bushing retainer and one bolt to hold that closed.

 

[Albrecht]

But the MGC was very front heavy and a bit of a 'parts' car as was the BV8. The MGB too had an old saloon engine in it. It should have been designed with a decent engine option to start with.

Agreed, but the point about the MGC - as was discussed last time it came up - was that it never got properly 'sorted'. It had good potential as an end-of-the-line development of the MG coupe, but events overtook it.

Agreed too about old engines. The British cars were stuck with 50's designed engines (this applies to the Big Healey too...) whereas the Japanese and German manufacturers had been essentially bankrolled into complete re-tooling post war and had benefitted from subsidised access to new technology. For Nissan this eventually meant good terms from the Japanese tooling manufacturers and - enginewise - purchase deals for pressure diecasting machinery that allowed them to make the modular castings used, for example, on the L-series fours and sixes.

The British manufacturers started dropping back at that point.

 

[uk66fastback]

One thing MG’s did much better than a Z was rust. Hateful little car to repair. I used to earn a little side money when I was an apprentice welding these for a restorer (used to de-seam Minis also, which was far more fun) Only upside for MG’s were all panels were available and still are via MOSS in Bristol.

You’re right, they did rust! I restored my B roadster in ‘83/‘84 and it was badly rusted at 12 years old - top of the inner wings where the mud sat, both castle sections and sills were shot. Rear valance too. All parts from the all-encompassingly-named Midget, Sprite, B, C, V8 Centre in Richmond!