Garage envy

That is a nice door (I must be getting old !) and electric would be useful to me. I can only open my door from inside because I disabled the exterior handle after a break-in. I have an internal bolt too.

Do we think it's a good idea to have a sealed door?

My garage is not sealed around the door so it allows draughts which help to reduce the fumes from old cars (not running) and also all the oil, petrol, fluids, paint I keep in it. That is one thing that puts me off integral garages.

I think I would prefer a vent somewhere. There are also gaps around the apexes on my garage which help I think.

you do need air movement rob, stops things rusting. I do like the insulated doors though. I'm a big fan of proper oak framing, however I still fitted electric roller shutter doors as they're so easy, take up no space etc. Apex venting is the best way with a single point lower down to help with some convection.
 

tyroguru

Club Member
you do need air movement rob, stops things rusting. I do like the insulated doors though. I'm a big fan of proper oak framing, however I still fitted electric roller shutter doors as they're so easy, take up no space etc. Apex venting is the best way with a single point lower down to help with some convection.

Surely it's humidity and dew point control that stops oxidation with ferrous materials and not air movement? With old style garage doors that have gaps everywhere you have tremendously reduced options about environment control. I replaced my old style garage door last year with a 42mm insulated, completely sealed job probably similar to what Garaculas has and it's made the garage a different place. The garage is also double glazed (two windows) and insulated floors, walls and ceilings (for 95% of it anyway). Makes working in it pretty pleasurable at any time of year. I now have a dehumidifier unit in there which moves air well and relative humidity is locked at around 40-42% (unless I have the doors open obviously).
 
Surely it's humidity and dew point control that stops oxidation with ferrous materials and not air movement? With old style garage doors that have gaps everywhere you have tremendously reduced options about environment control. I replaced my old style garage door last year with a 42mm insulated, completely sealed job probably similar to what Garaculas has and it's made the garage a different place. The garage is also double glazed (two windows) and insulated floors, walls and ceilings (for 95% of it anyway). Makes working in it pretty pleasurable at any time of year. I now have a dehumidifier unit in there which moves air well and relative humidity is locked at around 40-42% (unless I have the doors open obviously).

with airmovement you lower internal humidity and the dew point. you dont need it like a howling gale in there.
 

tyroguru

Club Member
with airmovement you lower internal humidity and the dew point. you dont need it like a howling gale in there.

I'm not sure of how air movement factors into the equation but I'm sure you're probably right Jason in that it is valuable. I think the issue here is one of control and with an uninsulated, huge sheet of metal (i.e., the old style garage door) we just have a massive radiant heat transfer mechanism and have subsequent large swings in temperature. That coupled with allowing air in which is often highly saturated (in the UK) with water vapour leads to good conditions for rust. I'm at the edge of my understanding but I think that's right. To me, it definitely makes sense to want to control that environment especially if you are actively working on metal that may not be protected well at times.

Evacuating smells is probably a different thing and I don't have a good solution for that :) .
 

MaximG

Well-Known Forum User
I've run a dehumidifier for years in my garage. Trouble is I'm not very good at keeping them, they tend to die in my hands. I believe keeping the moisture level down is quite critical. I had an experience early on where the air temp was very cold in the garage. There was a rapid rise in ambient temp outside so when I went into the garage the car was absolutely ringing wet with condensation. This pushed me down the dehumidifier route and not had the problem since. It also keeps tools and any paperwork in good condition.
 

Dale

Club Member
I had the same damp issue from the quick change in temperatures outside and the damp air condensing on any cold surface inside, so I tired to reduced the amount of ‘gaps’ letting lots of the outside in and insulated the thin metal garage doors with polystyrene. Now the garage doesn’t get nearly as cold as it did so when it warms up outside the temperature is more levelled and the damp stays away.

The metal doors were the main culprit for the garage getting so cold.

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MaximG

Well-Known Forum User
IMG_1105.jpg IMG_1123.jpg IMG_1124.jpg

The problem is it tends to get the sun all day practically and that wall makes a great brick over
 

tyroguru

Club Member
Yeah, I imagine the skylight helps the heating effect as well. I drylined my garage (including the ceiling) and insulated it with a mixture of Celotex and Rockwool which obviously made a huge difference. I'm super pleased with the result but If I knew how much of an effort it would be I wouldn't have started it.
 

MaximG

Well-Known Forum User
Yeah, I imagine the skylight helps the heating effect as well. I drylined my garage (including the ceiling) and insulated it with a mixture of Celotex and Rockwool which obviously made a huge difference. I'm super pleased with the result but If I knew how much of an effort it would be I wouldn't have started it.

:D Skylights are in the forward section of the garage. My part of the garage is behind the blue and white wooden doors.
 

Pete

Well-Known Forum User
you do need air movement rob, stops things rusting. I do like the insulated doors though. I'm a big fan of proper oak framing, however I still fitted electric roller shutter doors as they're so easy, take up no space etc. Apex venting is the best way with a single point lower down to help with some convection.
Surely it's humidity and dew point control that stops oxidation with ferrous materials and not air movement? With old style garage doors that have gaps everywhere you have tremendously reduced options about environment control. I replaced my old style garage door last year with a 42mm insulated, completely sealed job probably similar to what Garaculas has and it's made the garage a different place. The garage is also double glazed (two windows) and insulated floors, walls and ceilings (for 95% of it anyway). Makes working in it pretty pleasurable at any time of year. I now have a dehumidifier unit in there which moves air well and relative humidity is locked at around 40-42% (unless I have the doors open obviously).
I think you've got the 2 choices above, deliberately keep an airflow going so the the temp and relative humidity inside the garage tracks the outside conditions and stops any quick temp changes that result in condensation. Or seal everything up tight and depend on a dehumidifier to control the humidity, obviously the more stable you can keep the temp inside the garage with insulation the less work the dehumidifier will do.
Bear in mind that the relative humidty in the UK averages out at about 80% I think, you really want it kept at around 40-50% to prevent corrosion. A well insulated and sealed garage with a dehumidifier will keep it at 40-50% easily enough and would be the best option I think.
 

MaximG

Well-Known Forum User
Do the washer and dryer cause a problem?

The dryer vents outside and as for the washing machine no more than it would in your Kitchen. They are separated off from the back garage, the car bit, by the big wooden blue and while doors anyway. I need to make sure the washer and dryer doors are closed when I reverse the car out, just in case, it can be a little tight.
 

Rushingphil

Club Member
View attachment 41217 I used to have my garage - half for car and half for ‘workshop’. 2nd z has made it a bit cramped .....,

What dehumidifiers are people using btw?

I'm using the Meaco DD8L Desiccant ones. It's important to use a Desiccant one in a cold garage as the compressor ones don't work well and will freeze up. I think I read that below 15C the compressor ones start to loose efficiency.
 
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