richiep
Club Member
As much as the overfendered GT-R look is attractive (and my fave), that beautiful quarter surf line across the arch deserves to be saved more often!
It's only a model, but you get the idea:
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North East - GTR Heritage Centre open day
- Thread starter AD240Z
- Start date
It's only a model, but you get the idea:
Albrecht
Well-Known Forum User
Robbie J
Club Member
Don't get me wrong I love the original cars but with so few made the replicas may be the only way people see these cars, that said it would be nice if it was pointed out exactly what they are.
The other issue is the value/rarity means they don't get driven and people just look at them at shows.... hence building cars to enjoy today before we are all forced to use electric vehicles. My old R33 GTR was modded to 450HP it was fun to drive but still looked mainly original. Life is to short just to look at pictures
The other issue is the value/rarity means they don't get driven and people just look at them at shows.... hence building cars to enjoy today before we are all forced to use electric vehicles. My old R33 GTR was modded to 450HP it was fun to drive but still looked mainly original. Life is to short just to look at pictures
Albrecht
Well-Known Forum User
But that's kind of a strange way of looking at it, in my opinion. If you are looking at a 'replica' (actually, a lookalike...) of a GT-R, then you are not seeing the cars, are you?
The GT-R models were all about their mechanical specs: 24-valve twin cam engine, triple twin choke carbs, stainless six branch exhaust manifold with twin pipe 'shotgun' back box, electronic ignition, alloy radiator, 'quick' steering ratio, 100 litre fuel tank, 4.44:1 LSD R192 diff and 5-speed OD 'box. All that with the GT-R specific body with the different rear quarters, bucket seats, clear untinted glass, different garnish/trims etc etc. They were quite special for the time.
Taking a few bits off a lesser model and cutting the rear arches doesn't make it any kind of 89th minute substitute for The Real Thing, in my opinion. And it would be nice if a few more owners of L-gata engined (and G-gata shorties too come to that) took ownership of their particular variant's legacy and kept their surf lines intact.
That panel looks complicated enough to make already. That must have been one expensive panel to replace back in the day!
richiep
Club Member
Nevermind the fact that 99% of English-speakers get the pronunciation of Hakosuka wrong (including owners, as demonstrated in a conversation I had with one! He looked at me like a loon for pronouncing it the right way).
(For the uninitiated, Hakosuka, although written Ha-ko-su-ka, ハコスカ, is actually pronounced Hako-ska. It means "Box Sky" (as in Boxy Skyline) basically; "sky" is written "su-ka" but pronounced "ska" - there isn't an individual "s" in written Japanese. Here endeth the lesson based on my rudimentary but slowly expanding knowledge of Japanese - given my latest hobby is to learn it. Alan can expand/correct as necessary!)
datsfun
Club Member
Cough cough..
The biggest challenge when retaining the rear surf line is being able to get decent width wheels to fit. It requires the shortening of axles, rear tubs etc
Nice engine choice too !
AD240Z
Club Member
Thats fair - but i would say your opinion would be very different from the general public who might be viewing these cars at shows and gatherings, which Robbie referred to ( but with so few made the replicas may be the only way people see these cars) . I doubt they really care if they are really seeing the real thing , or if it has a 100 litre fuel tank.
I would like to think that maybe , just maybe, they look at the car in front of them and be interested enough to look the cars up online and find out more about them - or maybe come on a forum like this.
Albrecht
Well-Known Forum User
Again, I would respectfully - but strongly - disagree.
The GT-R models were all about their mechanical spec, as I have previously pointed out. This is what the 'GT-R Legend' is based on, and when Nissan revived the GT-R emblem for the R32-series Skyline in 1989 it had a lot to live up to because the PGC10 and KPGC10 had been so dominant in their period race career. I was living and working in Japan at the time of the R32's debut and it was put across to me most clearly that anything wearing the GT-R emblems was going to have a lot to live up to. Happily Nissan's engineers created a product that DID live up to what came before it, and exceeded it.
So does your "....I doubt they really care if they are really seeing the real thing...." apply to the R32, R33 & R34? Do you think people will accept having an R32 GTS presented to them as though it is a GT-R? It seems to me that they probably won't, and I believe that's because they know what the GT-R emblem means. And judging by what I see, read and hear elsewhere, anybody putting GTR emblems on a non-GTR R32, R33 or R34 is going to get a fairly universal negative response.
Dave Warrener chose to (re)name his business as 'The GTR Heritage Centre'. I would guess, in that case, that the GTR's heritage means something over and above generic Skyline heritage to him?
AD240Z
Club Member
I think you are missing or ignoring the point , or simply creating another discussion .
You strongly disagree with the fact that 'people ' ( which in the context originally presented, i took to mean the general public attending car shows) dont care if a car has the right badges on or not?
Really?
I arent saying all people .
No-one is questioning technical concepts - the simple fact is that to the majority of 'people' ( and in this i am referring to the general public or event those with no real interest in the marque(s) ) - they really dont care or undertand , what they are seeing or what the badge may mean. They probably neither know nor care if it is R32, R33 or R34 . They dont care what GT-R means . They will happily walk away having seen a ' Nissan' and post the pictures on facebook or share on Whattsapp with their mates - and there ,their interest ends .
This doesnt apply to someone like yourself with the interest and knowledge - but you are probably in a ( significant ) minority in that respect.
I note the GTR Heritage centre have recently been doing work on mustangs , mazdas, trans ams and VW bus . Its just a Company name - I wouldnt lose sleep over it .
Albrecht
Well-Known Forum User
I reckon the people I saw on the Nissan stand at the 2016 Goodwood Festival Of Speed, posing for selfies and group photos next to "The first GTR", did care what GT-R means. If they didn't, why would they think the car had any significance to them?
But more to the point, Nissan UK obviously believed that the GT-R name and history - and everything that goes along with that - means something specific. If they didn't, then why put 'Nissan Skyline GT-R KPGC10' signboards on it, and present it as such?
See, this is a key part of my scepticism with regard to The GTR Heritage Centre'. How would there be any confusion between what Nissan UK obviously *thought* they were putting on their show stand (at an event which takes heritage and history so seriously) and what they actually *had* on the stand? How could that happen? My feeling is that it is the inevitable result of lines being blurred in the promotion of private businesses.
Robbie J
Club Member
cynically the marketing team realised there was a history they could attach to, it meant very little to the most of them, just a way to sell GTR's. In 2008 I was explaining to the then team about Skylines and GTR's but every few years they changed people. It was the reason I was invited to the press launches to talk about what knew about the cars in 2008/9/10/11/12 as the Nissan marketing lot did not
AD240Z
Club Member
I'm more anti-social media than social - but I would't say that because they were standing beside it taking selfies - that the term GT-R had any significance to them in particular.
If they were anything like some people on these sites , they possibly took photo of the hot dog they had for lunch - and would have taken a selfie in front of hot dog stand if it had ' the worlds greatest hot dog' emblazoned on it. Pure conjecture of course - I wasnt there .
I do find it a little strange that your sceptcism is directed firmly towards the GT-R Heritage Centre and almost that they must have duped poor innocent NissanUK . Poor Innocent Nisssan UK who surely should have more than a vague idea ( or perhaps know someone who could check a few facts ) as to what they were putting on their stand . Surely a matter of a little due-dilligence would have solved that ?
I am absolutely in agreement that the lines have in all liklihood been blurred in in the promotion of private business - but both parties stood to benefit .
How could that happen ? It could be as you imply or it could equally be laziness, ineptitude , or a desire to deceive by Nissan UK.
Albrecht
Well-Known Forum User
By huge coincidence I happened to walk onto the stand when two groups of people were walking around the KGC10 and talking about "the first GTR"...
No. I think it is much more likely that the plates the car was wearing were a major part in leading people to think they were looking at a KPGC10 rather than a recently modified KGC10 with almost nothing in common with the GT-R's specs:
To make it clear: I'm saying that a lack of attention to detail at Nissan UK was mixed with The GTR Heritage Centre's apparent willingness to blur the lines about their KGC10, and all the holes in the cheese lined up.
I very much doubt Nissan UK's press department would set out to deceive, but I could easily imagine that they were all too easily misled. Bear in mind that Nissan UK has had a genuine KPGC10 representing their heritage at Goodwood events in the past: Once at the Festival of Speed's Press Day, and twice at the Revival Meeting. Genuine cars are available to them, and they have used them before 2016.
Alphabettispaghetti
Club Member
Its like being given tickets to see Elvis, you get there, watch a great performance , sounded great, looked the same. On the drive home, you think about how good it was. When you get to your drive, the radio says how its the worlds great Elvis impersonator has just performed to 100,000 fans as part of a media story.
you've still not seen Elvis.
you've still not seen Elvis.
Is there a website for these cars where this conversation/debate could continue? 
Robbie J
Club Member
datsfun
Club Member
Is there a website for these cars where this conversation/debate could continue?
Ouch
OK simply find and replace GT-R with Fairlady and KGc10 with 240z and conversation is back on point