Datsun 280Z -77 - Build thread

Ian

Club Member
Nice work, nice parts.

I have also had great customer service from T3, couldn't fault them at all. They sent me a new set of bearings for free and are always super helpful, I was expecting to pay for them and then they arrived within a few days for no cost.
 

peter_s

Club Member
Beautiful evening last night:
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Bought myself a new toy:
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Forever later:
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Threw some paint on there:
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Test fit:
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All torqued up with loctite. Getting there!
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peter_s

Club Member
Here we go!

Had a productive weekend.

New shiny parts:
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Finished:
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Front all done:
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Great view:
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Garage buddy is starting to look good as well:
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And this one is ready for pickup!
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Bonus pic. Got to start them young!
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Rob Gaskin

Treasurer
Staff member
Site Administrator
Your Z is certainly developing into a great car. What is the XK150 like as a driver in modern times?
 

peter_s

Club Member
Thank you Rob! I'm really glad to be able to develop the car in a way that makes me want to use it like I want. This will be driven a lot, and hard :D

The XK feels like a tractor :D It's got character and I really like it, but it feels old, from another era. It isn't bad to drive, but city driving gets old, fast.
 

peter_s

Club Member
Payout time!!

I finally took the car home yesterday, fist time in around six weeks. Wheel alignment is pretty off, especially the toe settings. I managed to change the tie rod ends yesterday and set them up by eye... it came out way worse that I thought :D But the car is driveably. And man what a difference some negative camber does. Because of the toe settings the turn in isn't sharp at all, but the car feels so planted under load compared to before. We are getting there my friends, it's starting to feel like the sports car it deserves to be. I estimate I have around -3 deg of camber right now all round, and this car really needs it with the McShitson struts! I dialed in quite a lot caster as well, and toe settings aside it feels pretty good! I have an alignment booked on Wednesday, can't wait!

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It would help if the steering wheel was pointing straight! ;D
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Rob Gaskin

Treasurer
Staff member
Site Administrator
Your car really does have a great stance.

I'll be interested to know how it drives as a road car i.e. is it kicking-back or tramlining. I know that trackday tyres alone made my car worse for general use.
 

peter_s

Club Member
Your car really does have a great stance.

I'll be interested to know how it drives as a road car i.e. is it kicking-back or tramlining. I know that trackday tyres alone made my car worse for general use.
Thank you Rob!

I will have to wait to comment until the wheel alignment is correct. I do feel a great potential for a good compromise regarding track and street driving though.

I have limited knowledge compared to many others, but a lot of experience compared to someone who has never been on track. A happy amateur in other words, so take that into consideration. I don't know what your experience is, so you might not agree with me here, but I would love to hear all other ideas around this! There are tons of things to learn!

I usually think a good compromise can be found in having a good sharp car with little or minimal tramlining. I have always been able to achieve this (there are always compromises), and the key I think is getting the toe settings correct along with a good spring/damper combination. The alignment settings you can get away with differs greatly with different tires, like you pointed out. The settings will always need to be adapted for your tire choice to some extent. I prefer the carcass of a track tire, I don't like it when the sidewalls are too soft, I'd rather let the dampers control that (again my preference and it's a compromise). The Yokohama AD08 is so far a good compromise for me, pretty good sidewall, feels like a trackday tire, but maybe not fully as sharp in feel as a R888/A048 or a full blows R-compound tire. It feels better that the Michelin CUP2 in terms of the sidewalls, but not in compound. The CUP2 is my reference as a good daily driver/trackday combination. It's great in that regard.

I am very picky about these things, and a good tire and a good spring/damper combination is where it all starts. And to me this is where people make the biggest mistakes, they buy too cheap dampers, or don't bother choosing a good match. Lowering springs are almost always shit, because the damper will not probably not work to it's best ability with the lower stiffer springs. A car can be stiff but still relatively comfortable, which is where most coilovers shine. I think the BC racing I have on now could be better, but it's a good budget solution. I will need some track time to evaluate better, but a KW V3 looks very very tempting.

My reference regarding a good setup for me is somewhere in between a comfort and race track setting, and this to me is what I refers to as the Nurburgring setup (which is where I've done most of my track driving). I generally prefer a car on the stiffer side, I'd rather sacrifice some comfort for the lack a vagueness (which is what I call it when I loose the feel of the car and it feels indirect and feels floaty). The ring favors softer setup because of all the bumps and elevation changes, which is why stock cars are so fun to drive there. I don't care what the Top Gear hosts say about this, my view is that if a car works well there, it will be an very nice road car as well! A tramlining car will be terrible car there (my 370Z with too wide tires is a great case in point :D), so this needs to be solved.

If your car is tramlining, ease off the toe out it the front, or increase! Try it out until it works with your tires. It can be tedious, but check your alignment settings are work off it. Alignment work will cost a little, but to me it's worth it, and it's great value because it can really improve the car. If you need three visits to your shop, so be it!

And regarding a loose rear end, the toe settings in the back is generally a solution there (more so then the LSD settings). Most often you want a little toe in for some stability. I think a adjustable control arm in the rear is a good investment if you have issues there.
 

Rob Gaskin

Treasurer
Staff member
Site Administrator
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Cup2 - my lad picked up some part-worn ones today for his Clio Cup. He already has a set on - these came from an 'old boy' who hill-climbs his Clio. Yes my 370 suffered from wheels and tyres that were a silly size for a road car. I mentioned it on here many times e.g.:

https://zclub.net/community/index.php?threads/wheels-too-big.17302/

https://zclub.net/community/index.php?threads/7j-wheels-over-8j-for-road-use.15874/#post-171418

I have Bilstein dampers on my blue 240 and they work really well. I had Leda on my trackday car and they were fine on smooth roads but not bumpy roads (to slow on rebound) so the wheels stayed up and spun. My lad had Bilstein on his earlier Pug 106GTi and that was very good too.

I've never had a car set-up professionally and so 'missed out' on a perfect set-up. I set the front tracking using my mate's adjustable rods! The camber was done by slotting the holes in the turrets! Yes I know........ we did everything on a shoe-string budget.

I'm no expert on suspension set-up or driving but my old car gave me and my lads lots of fun and was always very controllable and you could trust it. I haven't driven fast now for many years and was only saying to my lad the other day that I miss it, but it would take a while to get back up to speed without scaring myself. I watched some Youtube videos of the 'ring and it's quite frightening tbh - so many crashes.
 
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peter_s

Club Member
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but it would take a while to get back up to speed without scaring myself

I think you'll get into it faster than you think! Like riding a bike :)

The ring is scary sometimes, but you have to treat it with respect. Most idiots who crash watch the Clarkson videos and the gun for it. You have to learn it, there are no margins for error. Mich is part of the appeal, you have to ears it :) I see it more like a fast road than a race track, sort of like a mix between a tarmac rally stage and a race track.. It's such a great track, it's flowing and just nice to drive. All other "normal" tracks all loose the flow with the chicanes or something else, this is different. The corners are higher speed so you have to work with the cars weight transfer much more that at a track like Silverstone. It's great, highly recommend visiting, also for the great atmosphere (all petrol heads enjoy just being there).

As long as you get what you want, the way of setting it up doesn't matter. That said, it's really difficult to do it yourself, few succeed in getting it right. But if the car drives well and tire wear is even, success!

I think what you'll be surprised of if you go to a track today, is just how good the regular ultra high performance tires have become. They are better than R-compounds from a few years ago. Michelin super sport for instance. Incredible tires.

Bonus film from the ring in my M4 (sold it last years :():
 

Rob Gaskin

Treasurer
Staff member
Site Administrator
Great video - such lovely smooth lines, using all the width of the track, late apexes etc nice!

Very capable car too.

I noticed that you didn't hassle the guy in front either - gave him space and no doubt waved at the end. Was he 'with' you.
 

peter_s

Club Member
Great video - such lovely smooth lines, using all the width of the track, late apexes etc nice!

Very capable car too.

I noticed that you didn't hassle the guy in front either - gave him space and no doubt waved at the end. Was he 'with' you.
Thank you Rob!

They guy in the Porsche is a friend of mine. I was following him, he has done thousands of laps there. The Porsche was quicker in the corners, and he is a faster driver so I drove at my max there. Smooth and safe and quick :)

The M4 is incredible capable, but it was stock there. A proper 3way suspension would increase my confidence a lot there. It was a fun car, miss it sometimes. I plan/planned on going again in August with my M2, but I'm not keeping my hopes up too much...
 

SacCyclone

Club Member
I have been on some great tracks here in Cali like Laguna, Infineon, and Thunderhill 5 mile but none compare to the Ring...not even close.

Maybe someday, but for now I very much enjoyed your video Peter...thanks much.

Will love to see the Zed on the Ring and your thoughts afterwards.

Mike
 

peter_s

Club Member
I have been on some great tracks here in Cali like Laguna, Infineon, and Thunderhill 5 mile but none compare to the Ring...not even close.

Maybe someday, but for now I very much enjoyed your video Peter...thanks much.

Will love to see the Zed on the Ring and your thoughts afterwards.

Mike
Thank you Mike!

Laguna is a dream destination, would love to have driven there, such an iconic track.

I think the ring is so special because it's more like a road than a track. Some people just like that. I have a local friend who is a really good rally cross driver, he hated the ring.

The Z will be there at some point, that's a promise! I think about that every single day :D
 

peter_s

Club Member
Finally back from the wheel alignment.

The car drives well, but the steering tie rod ends prevented them from setting the caster more than -2 deg if I wanted to retain some toe out. So I think some longer tie rod ends are in order. Does anybody else have experience here? I would lite to get around 6-7 degrees.


Straight six fest with it's little brother.
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