260Z Project - 260Z GT-R

Ian

Club Member
I needed RH and LH quarter panels (plus loads of others) and ended up importing used panels from Z Car Source based in Arizona. The panels were not perfect but much better than any other options. I would use them again.
I'll look into it, thanks for the tip, how much was shipping?



One thing to remember when you are looking for 1/4 panels from the US is you will need 240Z or early (i.e. late-73-74.5) 260Z panels, not 74.5 onwards 260Z or 280Z as they are different due to the lack of bumper indents on the sides. Of course, if you do decide to de-bumper the rear, that later style might actually be desirable.
Thank for the advice. I'll only go bumper-less if the panel has to be made from scratch, if I can get hold of a decent quarter I'll likely keep it original.




It is terrifying how bad these cars look when you reveal 40+ years of repairs. I would say this is probably typical of most of the UK zeds driving around today.
I'm sure a lot of them have poor repairs as most body shops do not do good work with complicated metal work, instead relying on filler, heck I've heard of some so called restorers whos work isn't all that good. Hence why I took so much care and time in finding the right one to do mine.

But, if the car is rust free, looks great on the surface and is structurally sound I guess its not a big problem. Although this describes mine for the most part and it still bothers me. Plus eventually some of those bad repairs will lead to rust. Which was the man reason for doing this, so I know (as much as is possible) I'll have a rust free car for hopefully the next 20 years, more would be better.




I would probably be the first to say just get another shell but late 260z cars are not easy to find. The next one may be just as bad when to take it back to its bones. It's very easy to look at the repairs and call then all bad but the first thing I'd be considering is the structural ones. I would take my time and look over the car and list every repair or part that needs repairing. Then analyse each one individually. Then talk to retro shack and go through your list to get their views on what to do with each area and try to come up with costs. I think you will then be in a better position to know which way to go. I think I would probably get it repaired if I was in your position but I would pay the most attention to structural repair and then get away with a skim of filler over the other areas. This car is to be enjoyed as much as looked at so as long as what lies beneath is structural then save it.
Honestly, structurally the car is actually ok, and is definitely already stiffer than a lot of S30s out there going by the amount I hear from owners saying their cars seem to flex a lot and is really noticeable when you jack it up on one side, or even in the middle and then open the doors and you can't close them again. Mine doesn't flex at all when I do this, its way stiffer than my Civic despite being a lot older.

However, I have prioritised in order - Any rust concerns, structural (both repairs and my planed enhancements to stiffen it up and avoid me need a cage for this), cosmetics relating to the finished product and then finally cosmetics at the bare metal level starting at the worst and finishing with the least, if the budget allows they will all be done. Ideally the most filler that will be needed will be just a skim to finish it off.

I do not have an idea on a cost estimate yet, Dave is to get back to me with that soon.




sorry to see you in such a pain hope it all sorts it self out . in know you say your going to fix your original car and that is probebly the way i would go . but just out of interest there a 280z with low milage on ebay for £6995 but its a auto which may be good for you to reduce the price . worth a look and you could always flog all the bits you dont need to recoupe the main cost may get 50% back .all the best Chris
To be fair, I put myself in this situation, but as I plan to own this very long term, I'll thank myself for it later on.

I have looked into a shell, and on first look it seems a good idea and if I had known about these issues before blasting I would totally have done that without touching my shell and it would have been the cheaper and better option (other than there being 1 less on the road) Problem is its cost me nearly £5500 to get my shell to here and any new shell would cost at least £5k before any repairs were started. I guess it would make sense if it had zero repairs needed anywhere as it would only be £5k plus the mods I want so would be cheaper, but I highly doubt any shell cheap enough to justify buying will be in that condition?





Little Video:

 

chris frizzell

Club Member
the car on ebay is in this country . i got my 280z from ss classic from down the new forest . i bought it with giddy eyes and payed too much at the time £7500 for a non running car ,but it was 99.9% rust free with original floors and boot paint .£200 to have it dropped off in Yorkshire . to strip it depends on your spaner skills but all the parts you dont want could bring a fortune . i have not been into datsun for that long but i general i think that they where never designed it be on the road for over 50 years . within that time rust and bad repairs are parr for the course .
 

Ian

Club Member
how come its cost £5k to strip it?
It adds up real quick, I'd never have thought it would cost this much


Work done:

Strip it to bare shell from the rolling shell I left them including seals, glass and rear drivechain, and whatever was left underneath like fuel lines.
Cataloguing and stroring parts (Was told 34 hours of labour to this point)

Initial metalwork in the bay such as welding up any unwanted holes and removing unwanted brackets and studs in bay and cutting out rear panel
Fabricating rotisserie
Scraping off underseal, de-greasing and steam cleaning shell (Was told 37 hours for this lot, 12 man hours just to scrape off the underseal)

Transport to and from blaster
Dual media blasting and post blast phosphoric coating
Clean and remove blast media from shell
Prep for and application of epoxy coating including 4L of product (15 hours for this lot)


Storage of car in beetween work at £54 a month (not happy about this one, I didn't ask for it to be stored in between them working on it, but what can you do)

Spraying 5 or six test samples and postage to me.


Do you think the price is too high?






i bought it with giddy eyes and payed too much at the time £7500 for a non running car ,but it was 99.9% rust free with original floors and boot paint
Thats almost a bargain these days.




to strip it depends on your spaner skills but all the parts you dont want could bring a fortune
I can easily strip everything myself, and would sound good if my Job didn't have me out the country for most of the year, plus if I stripped it at home I'd have to pay nearly £1k to get it England.

I can't see parts coming to more than £2k? Although if someone bought my shell for £2-3k that would help. Really the biggest problem is my time at home to strip one and to pay someone to do so would cost at least £3k surely, its a serious amount of labour, heck I spent most of one day just removing sound deadening.
 
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It adds up real quick, I'd never have thought it would cost this much


Work done:

Strip it to bare shell from the rolling shell I left them including seals, glass and rear drivechain, and whatever was left underneath like fuel lines.
Cataloguing and stroring parts (Was told 34 hours of labour to this point)
Initial metalwork such as welding up any wanted holes and removing unwanted brackets and studs in bay and cutting out rear panel
Fabricating rotisserie
12 hours of scraping off underseal, degreasing and steam cleaning
Transport to and from blaster
Dual media blasting and post blast phosphoric coating
Clean and remove blast media from shell
Prep for and application of epoxy coating including 4L of product
Storage of car in beetween work at £54 a month (not happy about this one, I didn't ask for it to be stored in between them working on it, but what can you do)

Spraying 5 or six test samples and postage to me.


Do you think the price is too high?

Erm, yes!?

its a day to strip a rolling shell? 2 if you're slow?

why did they weld and repair stuff before it was stripped bare?

The rotisserie, its upto them how they do it, you shouldn't be paying for that, unless you gave the the kit to weld together?

having the shell taken to the blasters/blasted, £400ish.

I know it adds up, however 5k!? No wonder they're saying another £10k.
 

Ian

Club Member
its a day to strip a rolling shell? 2 if you're slow?
This did seem to take too long. although a day might be optimistic? If that includes, all suspension, rear drivechain, under car fuel and brake lines, steering rack, column and brackets, metal trim, seals, boot, bonnet, wings, doors and all glass?

I would have loved to do all this myslelf, but the costs of me flying to England, B&B and food costs todo so meant it wouldn't have saved much money. Thats the big negative of not having it done locally to me, I can't do some of the work, which is something I have done with all bodywork on any of my cars up to now.



why did they weld and repair stuff before it was stripped bare?
No repairs done, only modifications I wanted in the single skinned areas, because he wanted them to be able to get blasted and then epoxied without needed to re strip those areas again I guess. The rear panel came off because the bumper mount on the right was bent slightly and he had to straighten it for proper mounting of the rotisserie, plus it meant the inside of the metal frame could be blasted to remove any internal rust.



The rotisserie, its upto them how they do it, you shouldn't be paying for that, unless you gave the the kit to weld together?
He didn't charge me for the rotisserie, only making the mounts for it.



having the shell taken to the blasters/blasted, £400ish.
I think £400 is a bit low, however the blaster charged £1500 which despite doing a great job is definitely very steep.




I know it adds up, however 5k!? No wonder they're saying another £10k.
They haven't given me a price yet, only I said that figure and it was probably an over reaction despite there obviously being a crazy amount of hours of fabrication needed. I sure hope its not that much. I'll have an estimate from him soon.




Erm, yes!?
Not sure what I can do about it, I'm often too polite to confront people unless they are rude to me or clearly taking the piss. Funny though because I'm not like that at work, of course if I was I wouldn't be great at leading my team.
 
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I’d be wary of )1500 to blast there’s a couple of great places near them, at 1/3rd of what they’ve quoted, even if they added 20% it would make me wonder about their pricing on stuff.
 
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240Z Man

Well-Known Forum User
Hi Ian

Being honest it came as no surprise to me what was uncovered when you had it blasted. The trouble is these cars are nearly 50 years old and when they were repaired years ago they were repaired as cheap as possible because the cars were of low value. I think your best route is to stick with the shell you have got because you know what has got to be done to it. It has got to be better to keep the car original as an original UK car. Any repairs are possible, if you look on my build, people seem to laugh that I took on a build like that and thought it was impossible.

My advice to you as I have done many cars over the years is first you need to replace the floor panels which are readily available with the box sections for underneath as well.
While the car is in this state I would replace the outer sills even if you think they do not need replacing, they will be rusty inside. You are obviously replacing the back valance and I would also change the landing panel for the tail gate as this is all available. I would also buy all the repair sections that you can order for the bottoms of the doors.

Your rear panels can easily be made in to bumperless panels as if you look on my build it is quite straight forward to cut out large sections and put in new sections. I think you are worried about some of the back panels being uneven but a good metal worker can straighten these and then put a fine skim of filler over the top.

All the parts you require are available from The Z Store in America. You will get free ground shipping to a local port in America where I can give you the details of a company that I use regularly. They put the parts in a container and ship it to the UK, and when it arrives in the UK will have it delivered to your body shop. Take my word these people are the cheapest means of getting parts as I have been doing it for years. On the consolation side of this, you have got the car in the right place, as I have seen many of their projects up close over the years as I live in the same area. At least at the end of it, you know you will driving a car that has been done right. You also have the ability now to fit half a cage, as you will not get a better opportunity to do it. If you want any addresses of the shipping company or advice, let me know. The owner of the shipping company is called Ron Fenton. He has been bringing in parts for Mustang Owners Club for years.
 

uk66fastback

Club Member
Well, I'll second the recommendation for Ron Fenton as a shipper from the US, as he brought in all my fastback's trick suspension, T5 gearbox and repro doors etc. If you're able to wait for the parts and you most certainly are, then it's the best method of getting the things here.

He also brought in my Z in 2015 for me.

I can't see the logic in getting involved in another shell. There's quite a bit of amount of fabrication needed but most of it should be able to be done by a competent garage.

Am I right in saying you're in Ireland and the car is in England? Just wondered what the thinking behind the car being so far away was.
 

Rob Gaskin

Treasurer
Staff member
Site Administrator
I'm considering scrapping this project. Its back from blasting and its uncovered terrible repair jobs everywhere, its a disgrace. While I have seen far worse S30's repaired this is well beyond what I was expecting and is likely to add at least £10k onto the total, not sure I can afford it..........

Is it even worth repairing?

Hi Ian, you posted this a couple of days ago - I assume as a 'gut reaction' . Now you seem to have come around to the idea of 'Resto Shack' fixing it even though you admit you are short of the money necessary. I would be very careful because for various reasons you are not in control and also your decisions may be based on what you've already spent rather than what you have materialistically and what needs to be done to get it how you want it.

I suggested 'hanging fire' and saving money whilst reassessing the situation but I've now realised that logistically you can't do this because you can't get the car home without significant expense.

The bare facts are that the shell now stripped has an optimistic value (suggested on here) of between £2-3k. Resto Shack are already charging you twice that to get it to this situation. Looking at your pictures before they removed the underseal and blasted it were you contacted about the condition of the floors etc? It would be obvious to them even at that stage that poor repairs had been done.

Even if that shell (sometimes called Part Number 1) was in very good rust-free condition how much would it be worth in primer (without front wings, doors, bonnet, hatch? How much is it going to cost to get it to that condition?

Resto Shack are in business to make money so they will see the work needed on your car as income (and so they should and have already done) and therefore an opportunity.

You need a 'fixed price' asap to be able to make a rational decision otherwise this project could run away and be non-viable. You need to have in your mind 'go/no go' scenarios otherwise you are going to get into trouble. If 'no go' perhaps sell the shell in England and fetch all your parts in a big van.

You are not alone here, many cars cost more to buy and restore than their value.

When I sold my old 240 (which I was very attached to and had owned for 18 years) I did so because the work and cost needed to 'refresh' it was beyond my facilities, skills and financially it wouldn't make sense.

This is a pessimistic 'post' to balance out the optimistic ones and help your decision making.
 

Robbie J

Club Member
the first car I got over was bad in a few key places, we used a grinder to dig out the filler and it took a few hours to see it had been badly fixed. I think the stripper knew it was bad but went ahead regardless in your case

I think the first car maybe a little better than yours, its heart wrenching to have to start again but its like old girlfriends you get over them in time
 

moggy240

Insurance Valuations Officer
Staff member
Club Member
Like Rob said I think you should weigh up the different options before committing anymore money.
 

strugrat

Club Member
I'll look into it, thanks for the tip, how much was shipping?

I cant recall exactly, was quite pricey for me as I imported basically an entire front end. You can add the parts to basket and then they'll contact you to quote for shipping and you decide from there.
I think I had mine air freighted which added to the cost significantly but there are other options available if you're willing to wait.
 

Turn & Burn

Club Member
I had mine blasted in plastic media, and can understand how the cost goes up, the more filler that’s uncovered the more difficult it is to blast and the more time it takes. The lad in the place where I did mine quoted £350 and I ended up paying him more out of sympathy for how long it actually took to fight through the filler.
If it is £10k for body repairs and paint that’s sounds like a reasonable deal, it took me 2yrs of graft to get my shell from a similar state to yours back to full metal. Once the sills are off you may be into a shop of horrors.
Be wary of imported panels I had issues with some of them, once they were blasted door bottoms showed up repair sections and massive tears, what I thought were solid 3/4 panels were nothing like and I ended up putting repair metal in.
Late 260z floors as far as I’m aware cannot be found and I had to modify the wider floorpans. (The 260z floor/tunnel has a bulge for the cat, that isn’t fitted!)
Saying all that I would still go for the repair option, in the end you’ll know the car inside out!
 
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Ian

Club Member
My advice to you as I have done many cars over the years is first you need to replace the floor panels which are readily available with the box sections for underneath as well.
While the car is in this state I would replace the outer sills even if you think they do not need replacing, they will be rusty inside. You are obviously replacing the back valance and I would also change the landing panel for the tail gate as this is all available. I would also buy all the repair sections that you can order for the bottoms of the doors.
As painful as it will be on the wallet it does make sense to change as much as possible while I am at it. I will be changing the floor pans, and while the rails could be fixed I will be changing these as I want it as stiff as possible. Outer sills are repairable but again will be changing these to make sure its as good underneath as possible.

I will attempt to find a rear valance thats for my year of S30, so far all I've seen is earlier ones, but these could be altered, although it an easy shape to make so it can be made by hand quite quickly. The skin of my doors seem ok, its the frame that has some problems.

I will attempt to get some quarter panels, that would help.




All the parts you require are available from The Z Store in America. You will get free ground shipping to a local port in America where I can give you the details of a company that I use regularly. They put the parts in a container and ship it to the UK, and when it arrives in the UK will have it delivered to your body shop. Take my word these people are the cheapest means of getting parts as I have been doing it for years. On the consolation side of this, you have got the car in the right place, as I have seen many of their projects up close over the years as I live in the same area. At least at the end of it, you know you will driving a car that has been done right. You also have the ability now to fit half a cage, as you will not get a better opportunity to do it. If you want any addresses of the shipping company or advice, let me know. The owner of the shipping company is called Ron Fenton. He has been bringing in parts for Mustang Owners Club for years.
Thanks, I will do this.

I'm still undecided on a half cage but I am leaning more to not doing one.

Thanks for your advice and by the way, the photos on your thread are not displaying properly.





Well, I'll second the recommendation for Ron Fenton as a shipper from the US, as he brought in all my fastback's trick suspension, T5 gearbox and repro doors etc. If you're able to wait for the parts and you most certainly are, then it's the best method of getting the things here.

He also brought in my Z in 2015 for me.
Great, sounds like he is the man. I do not want to wait for too long though, would like work to start again in January.


I can't see the logic in getting involved in another shell. There's quite a bit of amount of fabrication needed but most of it should be able to be done by a competent garage.
Yes, at the moment its not looking like the best option for several reasons.


Am I right in saying you're in Ireland and the car is in England? Just wondered what the thinking behind the car being so far away was.
Couldn't find anywhere suitable in Northern Ireland that I knew would do a really good job, mostly relating to metal work as there are plenty of good places for paint work. Well, actually there was a couple of places, one I would have had to wait for two years for, the other was just too expensive.






Hi Ian, you posted this a couple of days ago - I assume as a 'gut reaction' . Now you seem to have come around to the idea of 'Resto Shack' fixing it even though you admit you are short of the money necessary. I would be very careful because for various reasons you are not in control and also your decisions may be based on what you've already spent rather than what you have materialistically and what needs to be done to get it how you want it.
Yeah, I guess gut reaction would describe it. I still have a decent amount of funds for the work, although I am aware how quickly the costs add up, I did spend over two years saving for this.

I am basing my decisions on overall cost I guess, if it were clearly cheaper to re shell I would do so, but I do not believe it is at this point.




The bare facts are that the shell now stripped has an optimistic value (suggested on here) of between £2-3k. Resto Shack are already charging you twice that to get it to this situation. Looking at your pictures before they removed the underseal and blasted it were you contacted about the condition of the floors etc? It would be obvious to them even at that stage that poor repairs had been done.
I knew about the floors, the floors as the panel by the column mount were a big driving factor in going all out. They also did mention that they expected some bad work after finding the rear panel and floors. But neither of us were expecting anything like what was revealed, if I had known myself I'd probably have just sent a new shell to them and then once that was done swap over my setup to it. Whoever did the work was clearly highly skilled with filler as the car looked virtually flawless on the outside with only the floors looking less than perfect. I have a feeling the filler and paint work were not done by the same guy who did the metal work.


You need a 'fixed price' asap to be able to make a rational decision otherwise this project could run away and be non-viable. You need to have in your mind 'go/no go' scenarios otherwise you are going to get into trouble. If 'no go' perhaps sell the shell in England and fetch all your parts in a big van.
Thats not an option, either way I will have the body I wanted at the end of this, but it doesn't have to be the same shell if that is the more expensive option. I put off buying a house for two years for this dream project of mine, not ready to give up on it yet, I didn't work my ass off to give up this easily.




I considered it, but upon looking closely at the photos there is too much rust, my experience tells me if there is that much visible rust in places then theres much more hiding, I can't afford to get another shell only to find a lot of rust after blasting as then it would end up costing more money over just repairing what I have. If I were starting a project like mine now however I think a shell like that would be a great place to start.







If it is £10k for body repairs and paint that’s sounds like a reasonable deal
Its definitely more than that, I am still waiting for a price estimate for the metal repairs. I expect all body and paint work to come to £8k once the metalwork is ready.


Late 260z floors as far as I’m aware cannot be found and I had to modify the wider floorpans.
I am hoping these will do the job: http://www.mjpshop.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&path=155_32&product_id=402
 

Ian

Club Member
I'm wondering if its worth getting one of these:


https://zcarsource.com/rear-quarter-panel-260z-280z-74-5-78-2-2-left-used


https://zcarsource.com/quarter-panel-280z-78-coupe-right-used-7661

Some are not in the best shape so not sure if it an advantage or not, at least they still have good swage lines.





I think I actually need them from an earlier shell though as the later ones do not have the indents for the bumpers.

https://zcarsource.com/quarter-panel-260z-74-coupe-left-used



I will get floor pans and sills from MJP.





Does anyone know about or have any experience with these?

https://www.alfaparts.net/dat280.html



I'm think this could be good, it looks good, but fitment could be poor:

https://www.alfaparts.net/pics/nissan/nz5.htm
 

Turn & Burn

Club Member
I got my floorpans from Mike at MJP, imported from the states. If u have the bulge in the tunnel they will not fit, I went through this with Mike at the time, do check with him. It took a lot of mods to make them fit. Have a look at the image on the Motorsport Auto site, the floor pans are identical in each side, urs is probably narrower in the passenger side.
 
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