Alphabettispaghetti
Club Member
If thats your chosen route then good luck 
-
The Z Club relies on the support of it's paid members - join the club or renew your membership here.
Acid bath recommendations
- Thread starter Mr HollowPoint
- Start date
Mr HollowPoint
Well-Known Forum User
Blasting is fine if you can do it yourself and deal with the mess, or trust someone else to do it and not warp/destroy your panels, but it doesn't get into all the sections of the car that contain rust and WILL continue to rot if not treated. There is no ideal solution as far as I can see, as the acid dip can have it's downsides as well and is far more expensive than blasting, but I think it also depends on the level of rot in the car. The 280 has rot in places you can barely see, so blasting would be no good really
Imo all these rust preventatve treatments unless applied at the original manufacturing stage are too hit and miss in the hidden areas and/or crevices and if looking after my pride and joy i would afterwoods flood/inject all crevice hollow sections with some sort of water dispersing,preservation fluid regardless of the mess and leave to drip dry and panel wipe/degrease areas for painting afterwards.Ive still got half barrel of castrol rustilo or safecoat (there are plenty of equivalents)when available that i always use to blast interior areas and seams and we originally used this to preserve up to 6ft diameter mega expensive oil pipeline valves for protection during transport and storage.Just my tuppence worth.
Mr HollowPoint
Well-Known Forum User
That's my plan too actually I was going to use underseal, but if you think this rustillo would be better?
Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk
I was going to use underseal, but if you think this rustillo would be better?Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk
That castrol rustilo just happens to be what i got super super cheap theres plenty of equivalents,any rust preventative oil/fluid that creeps and leaves a greasy/waxy residue with water dispersant qualities and decent alkali(usually some sort of calcium,sulfonate base)if i remember right,should do,nowt wrong with the usual dinotrol, waxoyl and such brigade IMO. Anything that eliminates or blocks the interaction of one or more of the things in the steel car corrosion triangle(iron,water,oxygen),,,summat like that.Im not taking the rap for saying what named product to use and it then failing i just use what works for me,,,,,i'm a coward lol.At the end of the day there are no miraculous new inventions for rust control or any other product,all products all originate from combinations from the same old periodic table,sorry for waffling and feel free to correct any mistakes.
http://www.kingindustries.com/assets/1/7/RPGuide(US)_Apr2011.pdf
http://www.kingindustries.com/assets/1/7/RPGuide(US)_Apr2011.pdf
Gio
Well-Known Forum User
After a bit of research a few years ago, I used these guys http://www.waxoylprofessional.com/index.html
Seemed to do a good job http://300zxtt.co.uk/z3protect.html . Looks like they have a branch oop north. Don't know if they're still going.
Seemed to do a good job http://300zxtt.co.uk/z3protect.html . Looks like they have a branch oop north. Don't know if they're still going.
J.alexander
Forum User
I was speaking to my Dad last night who has been restoring cars for 25 years and is currently doing his own Renault 5 turbo 2 He wouldn't touch any form of acid dipping for many of the reasons already stated here, firstly the panels often seem to get "damaged" and any compensation they offer comes no where near the cost of the replacement, secondly the acid will get into every nook and cranny to remove the paint and corrosion and due to its low viscosity it really does get everywhere but the cathodic dip type treatment is a thicker viscosity and therefore cannot possibly get to all the nooks and cranny's that have been nicely cleaned by the acid, worse still it probably forms a bridge over the seams thus not allowing other treatments such as waxoil to get in either. Also any salts that have been left over from the evaporation off the alkali will be trapped and itching to get out.
On the point of Soda Blasting, before doing that check out the feedback in America for it, Many Paint companies including PPG group will not warranty there materials if used over soda blasting because there can be a chemical reaction between the remnants of the soda and the primer that causes the paint to loose its bond to the base metal.
The best answer is Sandblasing followed by a chromeated acid etch primer and then once ALL the paintwork is done, flood the box sections with a cavity wax, preferable somthing like the Renault Ixcel product that is very very thin when first applied to allow it run into the nooks abd cranny's and then sets into a stiffer wax.
Hope this is off some use to somebody!
On the point of Soda Blasting, before doing that check out the feedback in America for it, Many Paint companies including PPG group will not warranty there materials if used over soda blasting because there can be a chemical reaction between the remnants of the soda and the primer that causes the paint to loose its bond to the base metal.
The best answer is Sandblasing followed by a chromeated acid etch primer and then once ALL the paintwork is done, flood the box sections with a cavity wax, preferable somthing like the Renault Ixcel product that is very very thin when first applied to allow it run into the nooks abd cranny's and then sets into a stiffer wax.
Hope this is off some use to somebody!
Mr HollowPoint
Well-Known Forum User
Sound advice but again, comes back to the same argument,that there just is no right way to do it.
To acid dip you must accept that you'll have nooks and crannies that are cleaned, but may not be as well covered afterwards and will require the compartments to be flooded with a waxoil solution and blasting of any kind, offers absolutely no guarantee that all the corrosion will in fact be gone, meaning your car can still rot from the inside out.
Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk
To acid dip you must accept that you'll have nooks and crannies that are cleaned, but may not be as well covered afterwards and will require the compartments to be flooded with a waxoil solution and blasting of any kind, offers absolutely no guarantee that all the corrosion will in fact be gone, meaning your car can still rot from the inside out.
Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk
datsfun
Club Member
To me it seems that Mr HP has made up his mind on his chosen procedure and we are going round in circles.
...Instead I say lets see some pictures of the s130 shell and assess what good metal is left
I tell you.......The acid keeps eating away. Imagine waxoyle not getting to the bits you need.
As stated my car was neutralised and ecoated. The bubbles appeared where various panels overlapped and acid was doing its thing between the spot welds and joints started to explode.
Bubbles in the middle of panels where there might have been a stregnthening bar touching inside.
I know many people that have had cars approaching £1m destroyed a few years after being dipped and restored etc....There are some very heavy legal cases being brought.
You have been warned. My last word, a word from disappointed experience
As stated my car was neutralised and ecoated. The bubbles appeared where various panels overlapped and acid was doing its thing between the spot welds and joints started to explode.
Bubbles in the middle of panels where there might have been a stregnthening bar touching inside.
I know many people that have had cars approaching £1m destroyed a few years after being dipped and restored etc....There are some very heavy legal cases being brought.
You have been warned. My last word, a word from disappointed experience
Thats the trouble when you have to leave/trust your pride and joy in the hands of others through whatever circumstances, a crying shame.Any acid/alkali can be neutralised if done correctly and thats the issue who monitors the so called experts and their sometimes well intentioned methods(or fly by nighters) are they all long term well established businesses with proven results that have stood the test of time.
Mr HollowPoint
Well-Known Forum User
I actually haven't yet decided which way to go for definite. The car still has some stuff to remove before I can take any option at all, but so far, yes I'm leaning more towards the acid dipping.
Yes, I know there are some bad experiences, but there are also many very good ones. There are a tonne of bad reports about SPL, yet none relating to Pro-Strip (That I can find at least) and the E-Coat from SPL (Not done by them on site, done by another company elsewhere) is not the same as the zinc coating from Pro-Strip (Done by them, in the same facility as the dipping).
The acid dipping, I at least understand from a scientific point of view and can take various steps to try and prevent problems. For one thing, the acid dip at Pro-Strip, is not the same as the one at SPL and is completely non-corrosive to ferrous metal, unless it's in a state of oxidisation, so the neutraliser is purely for preventing paint reaction and not to stop it eating the metal itself. Again, this is unlike SPL, where they use a corrosive Acid, which needs to be neutralised to prevent it eating the healthy metal as well as the rusty stuff.
As for box sections, whether I blast and don't actually remove the rust inside the box sections properly, or I dip and remove the rust, I'm still going to have a problem with getting waxoil in there and I'd wager I'll probably have more of a problem doing that with blasting, where all I'm doing is covering up rust I can't remove with waxoil, than I will with dipping, where I'm going to be covering the bare metal with waxoil instead of covering rust.
Short version is, I still don't know, but yes, I'm leaning towards dipping with Pro-Strip.
Yes, I know there are some bad experiences, but there are also many very good ones. There are a tonne of bad reports about SPL, yet none relating to Pro-Strip (That I can find at least) and the E-Coat from SPL (Not done by them on site, done by another company elsewhere) is not the same as the zinc coating from Pro-Strip (Done by them, in the same facility as the dipping).
The acid dipping, I at least understand from a scientific point of view and can take various steps to try and prevent problems. For one thing, the acid dip at Pro-Strip, is not the same as the one at SPL and is completely non-corrosive to ferrous metal, unless it's in a state of oxidisation, so the neutraliser is purely for preventing paint reaction and not to stop it eating the metal itself. Again, this is unlike SPL, where they use a corrosive Acid, which needs to be neutralised to prevent it eating the healthy metal as well as the rusty stuff.
As for box sections, whether I blast and don't actually remove the rust inside the box sections properly, or I dip and remove the rust, I'm still going to have a problem with getting waxoil in there and I'd wager I'll probably have more of a problem doing that with blasting, where all I'm doing is covering up rust I can't remove with waxoil, than I will with dipping, where I'm going to be covering the bare metal with waxoil instead of covering rust.
Short version is, I still don't know, but yes, I'm leaning towards dipping with Pro-Strip.
Mr.G
Club Member
Did you come to any conclusion on this?
I have a non Z car that requires restoration, I am not considering dipping the chassis but just the outer panels; doors, wings (front and back) and bonnet.
Is one relatively safe with outer panels when acid dipping? I would have thought that when you get the chassis done can leave areas which have not been neutralised...
The vehicle's panels has been painted on top of transitory primer (many years ago) and hence I need to get it all off... That's why I am considering dipping.
I like Prostrip but I've heard that the benefits of the SPL system is that they use Electrophoretic (e-coat) and hence you get a bond everywhere... http://www.surfaceprocessing.co.uk/technical-process.html
With prostrip it's not e-coated but dipped into a solution.
Sorry if I am dragging this post out.. .still grateful to hear views..
I have a non Z car that requires restoration, I am not considering dipping the chassis but just the outer panels; doors, wings (front and back) and bonnet.
Is one relatively safe with outer panels when acid dipping? I would have thought that when you get the chassis done can leave areas which have not been neutralised...
The vehicle's panels has been painted on top of transitory primer (many years ago) and hence I need to get it all off... That's why I am considering dipping.
I like Prostrip but I've heard that the benefits of the SPL system is that they use Electrophoretic (e-coat) and hence you get a bond everywhere... http://www.surfaceprocessing.co.uk/technical-process.html
With prostrip it's not e-coated but dipped into a solution.
Sorry if I am dragging this post out.. .still grateful to hear views..
Mr HollowPoint
Well-Known Forum User
ProStrip were excellent and they zinc plate the metal, as opposed to E-Coat. When I enquired at SPL, they didn't have the E-coating facility, as the external company who did it for them had closed down. I also found a LOT of bad reviews and complaints about them bending chassis and panel damage that wasn't there when they were given the car. Etc.
Mr HollowPoint
Well-Known Forum User
I personally made the decision to do the Acid Bath, because the shell was so bad, blasting simply would not have cut it. As has been revealed by the process, we would have missed all sorts if we had gone with blasting and the car would be unsafe because of those bits. We haven't had any issues with bits continuing to disintegrate or fall off, so maybe we've just been lucky.