240z + 1JZ-GTE (manual)

[johnymd]

hardboard from B & Q?

Hadn't tried them, I'll check that out today!

Soarer clutches are a bit thin on the ground but after a bit of research I find the 3.0i supra turbo with a 7mgte uses the same clutch. The bonus is there's loads around and there a lot cheaper. The standard/"performance" versions range from £102 to £254 but essentially appear the same. Around the £100 mark they are made by Sachs,Valeo or A C Delco. For £154 I can get what is described as the best organic clutch you can buy. Panther do one for £73 inc delivery but I didn't want to get into the budget market

These are all for the pressure plate, friction plate, release bearing, and delivery. From what I've read, most people are happy with these single plate type clutches as long as you don't go over 400hp.

PS dont for get to bring some decent brakes to Mallory.....your gonna need them

Your right Steve, brakes are going to be a problem but I only have 2 choices. Go with the brakes I've got or don't go at all. Maybe I should leave the car in the garage and
not use it until I can afford all the mods I want to do. Should be back on the road in 2013 then.

 

[Rob Gaskin]

Your right Steve, brakes are going to be a problem but I only have 2 choices. Go with the brakes I've got or don't go at all. Maybe I should leave the car in the garage and
not use it until I can afford all the mods I want to do. Should be back on the road in 2013 then.

You're right John just come along and see how your brakes perform. TBH if you are doing one track session you are only on track for 15 mins and you'll probably be following a slower car for some of that. Drive to the brakes you have just like the 'Bentley Boys' did. The good news is the run-off area at the hairpin is a lot bigger now.

Clutch - mmmm, I fitted a standard 280ZX clutch to my 240 after my engine mods and it never did cope with upchanges to 3rd without slipping. My current Centreforce 2 is ok, if you are going to be doing Santa Pod then you don't want slipping. Perhaps investigate a bit more, what does Phil E use?

 

[Mr.F]

as long as you don't go over 400hp.

...or use the RH pedal.

 

[johnymd]

Started my rear end upgrades (no I'm not going down the gym and spending time on the step machine). Finally decided on a length for my hybrid companion flanges and had the parts machined on Wednesday. Took them to the welders and now I have a pair of hybrid 260z/280zx flanges of the correct length to allow me to use my modified 280zx manual CV axles. The mod to the axles will consist of shortening the spigot on the endcap. Once I’ve got the companion flanges bolted up with the 260z stub axles I’ll be able to measure exactly how much the spigot has to be shortened. I’m hoping to have shortened the companion flange enough to not have to do any other mods to the axles but if they are still too long or closer than I’d like, I’ve still got the option of rotating the inner CV carrier which reduces the length by another 20mm. The diff’s away at the moment having the quaifes swapped from a 3.9 to a 3.7 so It won’t be back together until mid next week. I’m aiming for Santa Pod on the 2nd April. I’ve also got to remove the gearbox to swap the clutch so it looks like I’ll have a busy next week. Hopefully there will be enough room to get the box out without removing the engine as well.

 

[Rob Gaskin]

The mod to the axles will consist of shortening the spigot on the endcap. Once I’ve got the companion flanges bolted up with the 260z stub axles I’ll be able to measure exactly how much the spigot has to be shortened. I’m hoping to have shortened the companion flange enough to not have to do any other mods to the axles but if they are still too long or closer than I’d like, I’ve still got the option of rotating the inner CV carrier which reduces the length by another 20mm.

Nice welding John. I'm trying to understand the spigot/endcap/inner CV carrier set-up. Are you saying the splined shaft that does into the diff (Spigot?) might have to be stortened? And how does rotating the CV carrier reduce the length?

Just wanting to understand things John

 

[SKiddell]

Just some thoughts JP

The trick to clubman 1/4 miling is getting the 1st 60 ft absolutely as perfect as possible....get that wrong and its all over, you may as well take your foot off and cruise over the line because you cannot make up for time lost at the start line.

Likely result of the move to a 3.7 is that your 60-foot times will increase.

For a measure of 60 ft times you should be in at least the high 1.8's, any higher than that and your quick, but not as quick as you could be.

The + side of the coin is that you will have a little more left in your finishing gear (4th ?) and it may be in a better part of the torque curve rather than at the end or past it.

What are your 1st, 2nd and 3rd gear ratios ?

 

[johnymd]

Rob
The spigot I am referring to is the dimple on the outer CV cover. It is there to provide a pocket for the spring to sit in when the shaft is fully compressed. I may have to reduce the length of the spring and the dimple. This dimple sits inside the companion flange. After the the companion flange is bolted up to the stub axle I’ll be left with about 15mm of space for the dimple to sit in. The dimple is currently 25mm so will have to be reduced in length. Its only made of thin tin so will be easy to modify. With regard to the other end of the axle, the splined part will go into the diff and will not be altered. The CV joint can be stripped down and the tripod carrier inside can then be rotated and put back together. This places the CV joint further in the shaft.

Steve
You may well be right but the reasoning behind what I’m doing is this: I have very little traction in the first 3 gears so to stop wheelspin I use less throttle. By changing the ration I should be able to use more throttle and still achieve the same times. From what I have been told, turbo cars should run a higher ratio than N/A’s in order to make boost lower in the range. Plus the fact my input bearing on the 3.9 is knackered so I’ve got to have the diff apart anyway. So, I’ll try the 3.7 and if it doesn’t have the desired effect, go back to the 3.9.

 

[SKiddell]

I have very little traction in the first 3 gears

What tyres are you running ?

 

[johnymd]

225 Michelin cup sport now, although my previous runs were with 205 BFG's so this should make a difference. I'm going to need to bring them back to life a bit with some Grip tyre softener though.

 

[240z]

. Perhaps investigate a bit more, what does Phil E use?

I'm afraid mine is a custom made ceramic clutch with AP pressure plate, and it is for a W58 gearbox, not the R154 that Johnny has (the one I want!). So I can't help really..

 

[johnymd]

I think the W58 and R154 both use the same clutch. On my search for a soarer clutch I've read that it's the same as used on a 7MGTE turbo or non turbo, which uses the W58.

 

[1jzMkii]

W58 and R154 clutches

I think the W58 and R154 both use the same clutch. On my search for a soarer clutch I've read that it's the same as used on a 7MGTE turbo or non turbo, which uses the W58.

Hi Folks,

Not quite true. The W58 and R154 definitely use different clutches. The W58 uses a push-type clutch, where the throwout bearing pushes against the lever fingers, and the R154 uses a pull-type clutch, where the TB pulls the lever fingers away from the flywheel. As I recall, the spline count on the input shaft is also different, but the main issue is the different actuation of the pressure plate. You can use the same flywheel, but not the same clutch.

 

[phil.e]

For what it's worth, I run a Centreforce 240 clutch, 225/50/15 yokohamas, 4.375:1 plated LSD from Lawrence Evans, set quite tight, L24 overbored to approx 2569cc., standard gearbox, albeit rebuilt ,again by Lawrence Evans. Problem on the 1/4 mile is not from clutch slip but from lack of tyre grip.

Thanks.

 

[SKiddell]

Apoligies for going off topic Johnny

Phil.e what tyre pressure do you run at the strip, on Toyo R888's I am down to 9 psi to get grip
The lower the pressure the larger the footprint
What sort of 60 ft timkes are you gettting
Also your diff is a very aggressive ratio.....

 

[johnymd]

Not quite true.

Do you know this for sure?

From what I've read, and its only what I've read, the 1JZ-GTE soarer uses the same clutch as a MkIII supra. I've seen this question asked many time and the answer has always been to use the MkIII supra clutch. I'm not doughting you, I just need the answer as I need to order a clutch pretty soon. Any help greatly appreciated.

 

[Mr.F]

As far as I can make out from my ACT catalog, the Mk3 (86-92?) Supra non-turbo uses the same clutch as the Mk4 non-turbo car and the Mk3 and Mk4 turbo cars use the pull type clutch, but different versions.
From 08/81 all non-turbo clutches are 236mm driven plate, Mk3 turbo is 236mm plate "pull" type and the Mk4 turbo is a 250mm plate "pull" type.
Kit part numbers vary due to different release bearings being used at different times.

I'm no Toyota expert and the ACT catalog is an American publication, so beware...U.K. and Japan may have different specifications.

 

[johnymd]

The internet is full of misinformation and it looks like I've been caught out by it again. As said, the clutch on a soarer is different from a MkIII supra. The flywheels are different so the pressure plate are not the same. The friction plate however does appear to be the same.

 

[johnymd]

Clutch now ordered. Gone for what Competition Clutches call a stage 4. It's basically an uprated pressure plate and 6 paddle ceramic disc. They say it will cope with drag racing and still be well mannered on the street. Should arrive Wednesday and I'm trying to leave Friday clear to fit it and replace all the rear wheel bearings. So it looks like Saturday at Santa Pod will be a OK for me. Can't let Darren get too far ahead at the start of the season by not showing!

 

[Rob Gaskin]

I'm trying to leave Friday clear to fit it and replace all the rear wheel bearings. So it looks like Saturday at Santa Pod will be a OK for me.

John, I had to involve a machine shop when I replaced my rear shaft bearings. Two of them are pressed on to the shaft. Have you taken this into consideration?

 

[johnymd]

Luckily I have a couple of places near me that will let me use their press to replace the bearing on the stub axles. It's getting the gearbox out and back in again on my own that's going to be the fun job. The R154 box is not a lightweight item like the Z one.